Zero Energy Modular Homes

00:00:00:26 - 00:00:29:17
Mike Collignon: Of our 2024 housing. 2.0 Thought Leader webinars and why am I smiling? Well, maybe it's because we're back together again. Maybe it's because we're in National Smile Month. Either way. Go ahead and smile and I'll trust that you are. Since I can't see you. Today we're going to highlight how systems built homes are demonstrating that zero energy ready homes can be built cost competitively to industry leading quality standards.

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Mike Collignon: Now, one of those modular companies, devil, has been impressively getting to zero with a wide array of designs. Joining us today is Brandon Weiss, chief innovation officer and co-founder of devil. He is a pioneer in the green building movement. I had the honor of knowing him for years. And his expertise is in building high quality, durable, efficient homes.

00:00:50:23 - 00:01:22:21
Mike Collignon: Brandon has earned many building and design accolades, including the 2013 Just Department of Energy Grand Award for Housing Innovation and USBC Outstanding Single Family Project of the year in 2017. His credentials include passive House, Certified Builder and Lead AP. Now we have some wonderful sponsors and it would make them smile if I told you more about them. The first is Schneider Electric, who is driving the digital transformation of modern homes with smart and sustainable energy solutions for ultimate comfort and energy efficiency.

00:01:22:23 - 00:01:54:24
Mike Collignon: They're connected home ecosystem of smart energy management solutions provides digital control of energy use throughout a home from the grid via their smart electrical panel to their connected wiring devices. This grid to plug solution makes it easier to create smart solar power and backup power ready homes, both now and in the future. Panasonic Healthy Indoor Living Solutions is helping builders across the country differentiate themselves with powerful, code compliant and cost effective indoor air quality solutions that provide a safer environment for home buyers.

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Mike Collignon: And Genco Solar is a leading PV module manufacturer and energy storage system integrator. The company has deployed more than 100GW of their Eagle modules in 160 countries globally, including more than 17GW right here in the United States. Eagle storage brings together the best energy storage technology for turnkey hardware and energy storage services. Eagle is a trusted choice for US solar and storage projects now.

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Mike Collignon: During the course of today's conversation, you can submit questions for Brandon. Simply use the questions box that you're going to find inside the go to Webinar Control panel. I'm going to review those questions and pose those two. Brandon, after the conversation. Now who is conducting the conversation you asked? Well, please welcome my smiling friend and CEO of Greenville Media, Sarah Gutman.

00:02:46:08 - 00:03:07:29
Sara Gutterman: Hello there Mike. Thank you for the wonderful intro. Brandon. So good to be here with you today. And I want to just first start off with a special thank you to Mary Kestner, our production manager, who is our wizard behind the scenes. And she makes it all happen as well as to our sponsors. So with that, Brandon, let's dive in.

00:03:08:00 - 00:03:34:16
Sara Gutterman: I am always, always so happy to have the opportunity to talk about offsite pre-fab modular construction. I am very familiar with Devils, as you know, since I am on your board of directors, so I always like to share that. Double has just been doing some incredible things over the last 612 months in particular, as you have refined and evolved your processes.

00:03:34:16 - 00:03:48:25
Sara Gutterman: But let's kind of start at the beginning. You want to just talk quickly about develops journey and some of the lessons and opportunities and challenges that you've experienced over the years. And then just give us a brief overview of where you are today.

00:03:48:27 - 00:04:23:08
Brandon Weiss: Sure. Yeah. Good. Good to see you, Sarah, as always, and thanks for having me on. It's exciting to talk talk about this and get a wider audience for it. So yeah, I guess quick background is I was previous to to develop. I was a a custom home builder in Chicagoland market focusing on high performance home so built I think the first several passive house projects, the first NVMe rolled level project, the first remodeled Leed platinum project and registered the first Living Building Challenge residential home in the Chicago land area.

00:04:23:08 - 00:04:51:29
Brandon Weiss: So that was kind of what I was focusing dialed in on. And I realized in the 2016 era that, you know, I wasn't going to be able have the carbon impact I wanted to by building homes, I guess in one market only, and also being a smaller company, building three, 4 or 5 homes a year, I really wanted to scale that and try to solve the bigger problem and make these types, those types of homes available to a wider audience and and visually across the country.

00:04:51:29 - 00:05:28:15
Brandon Weiss: And came across my co-founders, Curt Good John and Chris John. They had at the time we met back in late 2016, had sold their previous company, and we're looking to do something different and in the US market, and they feel like what they had started in the modular and they had understood the manufacturing process, started a factory from scratch, had that experience and thought what I was doing was interesting and focusing really on the healthy home aspect as well as the energy efficiency and, you know, passive house principles and, and just all electric homes that could be self-powered.

00:05:28:15 - 00:05:40:13
Brandon Weiss: All these things we start talking about back in 2016, we ended up designing stuff like formalizing the company in 2017 and, and then.

00:05:40:16 - 00:05:59:27
Brandon Weiss: Kind of working on the radar. Did our first project by the end of 2017. That was in Colorado and near Winter Park, which is a great location and overlooking the Continental Divide. So a great picturesque first project. And then we ended up purchasing a factory in 2018, raised our series in 2019 and have been working towards scale since at that point.

00:05:59:27 - 00:06:22:18
Brandon Weiss: And so yeah, that's kind of the broad history. But we started with the idea of these all electric homes at that time. It was before California, Berkeley and California had mandated that new homes be all electric and not include natural gas. So we were kind of ahead of the curve on that, as well as including solar and battery in our homes in California, there's the big duck curve issue with overproduction of solar resources.

00:06:22:18 - 00:06:50:28
Brandon Weiss: So unless you can store those, it wasn't doing anything good for the grid. And we wanted to make sure the homes we were producing could be a great asset and not a liability to the overall grid. So that was kind of the part of the initial genesis. And then packaging that into a really modern design home that was manufactured and with using advanced manufacturing systems, machine learning and bundling this all together to to create and try to solve some of the greatest challenges that we face today.

00:06:50:28 - 00:06:56:00
Brandon Weiss: So including housing, health and and climate change.

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Sara Gutterman: Indeed, and.

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Brandon Weiss: Where we are today. Sorry, the last part of your question just just came back to me.

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Sara Gutterman: I jumped in, go ahead.

00:07:06:24 - 00:07:26:28
Brandon Weiss: So yeah, when we started the company, we started we we built the first project was for a client and then we, we started looking at some modifications. So we built the next few 3 or 4 homes I think spec homes. So we had bought properties, put them on those lots and then sold so we could kind of work through our, our system on ourselves.

00:07:26:28 - 00:08:01:07
Brandon Weiss: And then just the client received the, the great home on the back end there. And then after that we started doing direct to consumer. So building homes for clients on their properties that they owned. And that was all through, you know, the western US, Colorado, California, Utah. And so that's kind of where we've been to today. About a year ago, we kind of pivoted from that, and we're looking to scale up using a more partnership model where we can build, you know, 20 to 100 to 1000 home communities.

00:08:01:07 - 00:08:24:24
Brandon Weiss: And so that's what we're focused on now, is finding landowners that don't necessarily want to be developers, but need a would like a way to access their property for for greatest and best use, or partnering with developers that don't want to be GCS. Or maybe they've lost their a lot of their trades or subcontractors, or they're just subcontractors are too busy and they don't can't manage the actual go vertical process.

00:08:24:24 - 00:08:45:19
Brandon Weiss: But they can they can handle some of the infrastructure and titling, that kind of thing. So we want to partner with those types of groups and entities in order to put together larger developments. And, you know, our really efficient homes that have the ability to store energy in them. When you bundle these together in a community type setting, there's just so much more value you can get out of them.

00:08:45:19 - 00:09:07:07
Brandon Weiss: So that being for the clients and for for everybody involved. So that's kind of where we're we're we're at today and, and started we've been going down that path and have some good deals in the pipeline and looking to build out that pipeline so we can open some additional manufacturing facilities and start really that scale process. We've been through the product market fit.

00:09:07:09 - 00:09:21:14
Brandon Weiss: We've collected data from the projects and feedback from clients, and now we're at that phase that we really know that we can scale those product and start making it reach the masses and and really start tackling some of these great problems.

00:09:21:16 - 00:09:48:14
Sara Gutterman: Thanks, Brandon. So let's talk about the promise of offsite construction, which includes everything from waste minimization to quality control to solving some of those labor challenges. Certainly not all of them, because when the House is delivered, certainly there's everything from the foundation system to set and stitch and then, you know, hookups of electrical and plumbing and all that.

00:09:48:14 - 00:10:10:20
Sara Gutterman: But but specifically, just for this question, let's talk about the promise versus the reality of prefab. So what are you actually able to realize in terms of the benefits of offsite construction? Again, with respect to things like waste minimization, volume purchasing for reduced pricing, quality control, etc.?

00:10:10:22 - 00:10:36:24
Brandon Weiss: Yeah, sure. It begins with with greater cross control over the whole product or process and product itself, right? So we're able to bake in a lot more value than you could do building it on site, because we're doing it in a standard manufacturing process, have had work scopes in certain work cells where it's repeatable construction. And now we're also at the phase where we're.

00:10:36:26 - 00:11:05:26
Brandon Weiss: Looking at reduction of options and just trying to standardize and manufacture based upon the feedback and data that we've collected, what we know is a highly sought after product. And so in doing that. Yeah, the efficiency is really come into play. And being able to repeat these buildings across our production line, having a trained, skilled work staff that is able to, you know, follow the same work, work scopes day after day and their same work cells waste minimization.

00:11:05:26 - 00:11:29:05
Brandon Weiss: Totally. We can track all this with with inventory tracking, with data collection tools, and ensuring that we're not throwing away good materials at the end of most construction sites or construction jobs. There's a garage that's, you know, half full of leftover this or that that either goes to a warehouse somewhere or goes into the garbage. And with ours obviously building in the same spot, we can just reuse those materials.

00:11:29:08 - 00:12:01:19
Brandon Weiss: We've really looked at waste with our structure itself, too. There's a couple of motivations that go out on that path, but we use a light gauge steel structural assembly for our for our homes. And that includes everything from floor structure, wall structure and ceiling structure. And we are able to produce, you know, 90% plus of our structural elements, ourselves in-house, with one skew, that being coil like gauge steel and having three machines that can make all the different profiles we need to produce all that structure.

00:12:01:19 - 00:12:20:20
Brandon Weiss: And how. So? Previous to that, we were waiting months and months for open web wood trusses and costing tens of thousands of dollars. For that. We've been able to reduce that cost and increase our control of it. And again, with one skew that's much more manageable than having, you know, customized SKUs for a certain project that needs this with trusses and this height trusses and things like that.

00:12:20:20 - 00:12:46:02
Brandon Weiss: It's just a better, more scalable process. We plug it in there. It makes all the mechanical penetration holes in the machines, too, so we don't have to necessarily frame everything up and go and drill everything to run our electrical through our plumbing, through our HVAC, through all that's done. As these studs are different, structural components are being printed out.

00:12:46:04 - 00:12:58:06
Sara Gutterman: And I know that that has also reduced the time that is needed to actually create a module in your factory as well. Correct.

00:12:58:09 - 00:13:18:00
Brandon Weiss: Yeah, we've we've consistently since the beginning been able to reduce our, our cycle on the factory floor, and we continue to have a plan to strive forward to, to continue to reduce that, that that was definitely a big factor in helping us reduce that time. We did some time motion studies with that too, just to verify that we were going down the right path early on in that.

00:13:18:00 - 00:13:29:11
Brandon Weiss: And yeah, the data came back and we had saved a significant time, labor hours and just strain on on the overall employees like.

00:13:29:14 - 00:13:52:11
Brandon Weiss: Having these tables where we can frame out these, these things and the components are printed out and it's just a matter of piecing them together. They all have a serial number printed out on and piecing together and and fastening versus having a break out of tape measure and go to sob and over cut. You know, just all these little things add up as you get more predictable predictability and you know exactly what work is done, which, which works out.

00:13:52:11 - 00:13:59:09
Brandon Weiss: And it's not kind of looking for tools and things like that, but really just getting in your cell and going.

00:13:59:12 - 00:14:26:04
Sara Gutterman: Absolutely. Now I want to talk about the performance of your homes as well as the carbon footprint. Let's start with carbon footprint, because I know that this is something that you spend a lot of time thinking about. And can you start with the foundational system, the innovative foundational system that I think you actually created and came up with that we are testing in our devel demonstration project that we're doing together.

00:14:26:04 - 00:14:57:28
Sara Gutterman: It's called transcend. If anyone's interested, you can go on to our website and look under the navbar Home and design for the transcend project, and read all about this incredible prefab home that we've brought here to where we are. But that starts with this really innovative foundational system. So, Brandon, can you talk a little bit about that? And then also some of the other things that you have done to reduce the carbon footprint of your homes?

00:14:58:00 - 00:15:20:11
Brandon Weiss: Yeah. So on the the foundation system, that was definitely a team effort. I'm not going to take credit for that. It was across all components. We that's something that makes it special is that we have all these unique skill sets and within one company. So starting from like design, we have great design staff, architects, we have interior designers, we have furniture designers, we have structural engineering.

00:15:20:13 - 00:15:38:06
Brandon Weiss: You know, all these components are all under one house, which makes things more efficient. And being able to collaborate on a project and try to reduce some unnecessary redundancy in some realms, and just be able to really look at what is the goal of a project and be able to achieve that as a team. So for the foundation system on site, you know, there was several things driving that.

00:15:38:06 - 00:15:56:21
Brandon Weiss: One is just to make things faster on site. We wanted to produce our own foundation structure that that could go and get flat stacked, go to site and be erected in really less than two days. And I think in a lot of cases it can be done in one day. All we would need ahead of that is just a poor footing.

00:15:56:26 - 00:16:22:19
Brandon Weiss: And that's the only concrete. From there, we go up with our system that we can produce with our same structural systems and machinery that we have in our factory. Make those panels flat, stack them and send them the site, and then send a team, you know, 3 or 4 people and be able to get those done. And like I said, in two days and has the included, you know, waterproofing membrane on it, structural components and we'll be ready for modules as early as, you know, the day after that set happen.

00:16:22:19 - 00:16:49:08
Brandon Weiss: So again, that was to speed up the process but also save costs. We've we've looked at different geographies across the western US where we're focused now and knew that if we went down this path, you know, we looked at our first version of what was a concrete wall and applying all the insulation on the outside. And then we went to an ice wall, which we saw some cost savings and some some speed increases in.

00:16:49:08 - 00:17:09:01
Brandon Weiss: And then looking at this as our new option, which is a prefabricated foundation system that gets sent to site, like I said, that is being done much faster and at a lower cost in both of those previous systems and gives us the same R value and effectiveness, puts all the insulation on the outside of that foundation system and again makes things ready for modules really quickly.

00:17:09:01 - 00:17:29:22
Brandon Weiss: So you'll work. We really need ahead of that is excavation and that poor footing. And then we can come in and and set those foundation wells really quickly or you know, depending on who the partner is, if they have that skill set, they could they could take these on pretty easily to and get trained and on one project and then be able to scale out a whole community with it.

00:17:29:24 - 00:17:51:08
Sara Gutterman: Wonderful. Thank you. So, Brandon, let's talk about the performance of your homes. Again. I know with transcend we are net zero energy. We will be net zero carbon because we'll be purchasing carbon offsets to offset the embodied and operational carbon, kind of that last mile on the embodied carbon part. They're healthy. They're designed to be whether it's solar plus storage.

00:17:51:08 - 00:18:07:12
Sara Gutterman: We have some advanced demand side energy management systems in the in the transcend project. But just in general, talk about the performance of your homes, what makes them special and healthy, resilient, zero, etc..

00:18:07:15 - 00:18:10:23
Brandon Weiss: This might be a long answer, Sarah, but yeah, happy to go down that path.

00:18:10:26 - 00:18:13:16
Sara Gutterman: It's why we're here, my friend.

00:18:13:18 - 00:18:48:18
Brandon Weiss: So yeah, we started again with the the notion that we wanted to create, you know, highly efficient, high quality, high performance homes with a great design to them, create a good indoor outdoor connection from a biophilic design principle. And, you know, did some really intense studies to determine what what assemblies were going to work well in terms of both mass manufacturing and as well as going across all seven climate zones in the US, we wanted to make sure it worked everywhere and so that we could really scale the product in every, every geography.

00:18:48:18 - 00:19:14:02
Brandon Weiss: And it was both a twofold. It was energy efficiency, yes. But also even more driving the situation was the building science side, like making sure that these assemblies work everywhere without the risk of condensation or interstitial moisture happening and risk of mold, rot, decay, that kind of thing. So we were trying to build these buildings last, you know, over 100 year life cycles and so needed a high quality product that was going to have moisture issues.

00:19:14:08 - 00:19:43:08
Brandon Weiss: Over 90 plus percent of buildings failed due to some kind of moisture issue or water issue. And so trying to mitigate that as much as possible through really good building science and intense like hydrothermal wall analysis modeling on top of the energy side. And so, yeah, we figured out after looking at, you know, a couple different of our standard floor plans and models across all geographies, like in the nail nailed in on one one of something that was working really well since that time we've changed to this new structure.

00:19:43:08 - 00:20:00:01
Brandon Weiss: So now all of our insulation lives on the outside of our air barrier, which is on the outside of our structure. So we don't have any insulation in our cavities. It's all on the outside of our building where it's most effective, and you get the true value of every inch, because you don't have that thermal bypass happening at studs and structural connections.

00:20:00:03 - 00:20:29:21
Brandon Weiss: So another part of that is thermal bridge free construction where we don't have, you know, structural members going from inside our condition space to outside and good air tightness control. We have balanced and distributed ventilation throughout our homes and again, all electric. So all loads are handled by one one fuel source, which can be offset completely by solar, especially when you only really when you add the battery storage into that element.

00:20:29:21 - 00:20:49:29
Brandon Weiss: And then you can use that energy when it's being produced, but also through the whole night and back into the next day. So we call that our self-powered initiative. We wanted our homes to power themselves off of the sun for long duration, be it an outage or we have done off grid homes as well. But most of them are grid connected and can also, in the right geographies, be an asset to the grid.

00:20:49:29 - 00:21:13:24
Brandon Weiss: And that, you know, we have excess capacity stored at peak power. So we can backflow that to the grid during those time frames of the day and reduce the need for, you know, kind of the dirtier, long, long term fuel sources from the grid. And so trying to look at a holistic like that and yeah, on the, on the building one onesie, two type projects or infill type projects.

00:21:13:26 - 00:21:32:29
Brandon Weiss: Not as impactful, but we have all that research and data now done. And now that we're doing larger communities that this really going to come into effect there on that side of it. And so that's like energy efficiency. I can actually share my screen real quick if.

00:21:33:02 - 00:21:38:10
Brandon Weiss: If you'd like. Let me pull this up real quick.

00:21:38:12 - 00:21:39:24
Brandon Weiss: Can you see the chart.

00:21:39:27 - 00:21:41:05
Sara Gutterman: Yes.

00:21:41:07 - 00:22:04:19
Brandon Weiss: So this is, this is showing the this is in Reno, Nevada. So not a super cold climate. Kind of somewhat mild mixed zone here. And what we're seeing is the the orange line is a code built home in this geography, the same exact floor plan. The wall assemblies are changing because we're we model the orange line to be the code built minimum standard.

00:22:04:19 - 00:22:26:11
Brandon Weiss: And then the blue line is the devil are using our standards, though that's over the course of a year. It's an hourly chart in the course of a year. So you can see pretty flat demand curve, which gives us more predictability and much lower energy use than you see these orange, the orange lines here, which tend to spike kind of radically and isn't as consistent or predictable.

00:22:26:11 - 00:22:51:11
Brandon Weiss: And then this chart, this bar chart below is showing our homes annual energy use by circuit compared to a code built home below that. So our home is in this case, less than half the energy of that home. So that shows the energy efficiency of it. And then this chart here is showing one a daily 24 hour chart of code versus devil code on the left, devil home on the right.

00:22:51:11 - 00:23:14:04
Brandon Weiss: And you can see this is A11 day per season. And so here we're looking at top left is March. And we get into June. Air conditioning season top right. Top left is that shoulder season in the fall. And then we have the the winter which off the charts in terms of the code build home versus our home again pretty flat good looking demand curve there.

00:23:14:04 - 00:23:36:28
Brandon Weiss: So that just I think better highlights than what I can say. But half the energy use in this climate zone, just using really good building principles, good modeling and and then the quality control side you mentioned as well. And yeah, that's much easier to do in the factory where things, prescriptive work happens in a certain station and only happens in that station on an everyday basis.

00:23:36:28 - 00:23:53:26
Brandon Weiss: So when you know that and you know kind of what time, how long the work cycles are, your quality control team can get there and inspect things before they get covered up or move on from. And so we have about a 450 point inspection list per module when it goes through the production line, just to make sure it's being built according to plan.

00:23:54:01 - 00:24:14:10
Brandon Weiss: Things are being built the right way, and it's just something much easier than if it was built on site and having to kind of guess when the crews are done, usually it's happening by a subcontractor. So maybe communication gaps exist there and you don't exactly know when the work's done and when the next trades coming in is just kind of a juggling act a little bit.

00:24:14:12 - 00:24:30:00
Brandon Weiss: Whereas with what we're doing, it's it's again more predictability and and being able to stay on top of it and then, you know, stop the line of said there's something wrong that needs to be fixed before it progresses. So getting being able to see that stuff early is very helpful.

00:24:30:02 - 00:24:58:28
Sara Gutterman: Thanks, Brandon. Now I've got two more questions for you and then I'm going to kick it over to Mike, who I know has a handful of questions from the audience. So with prefab, I think some people have this honestly a misconception that a prefab home is delivered and boom, you have a home. But that's not necessarily the case because there is work to be done on the job site, obviously, prep work foundation.

00:24:58:28 - 00:25:25:14
Sara Gutterman: And then as I mentioned earlier, once the home is set and stitched, there was a lot of hook up work and even finish work. And so I think it's important for builders and developers if they're going to, you know, partner with devel to do these communities kind of have eyes, go in with eyes wide open and really understand what their role is in order to just set expectations accordingly.

00:25:25:14 - 00:25:58:07
Sara Gutterman: So, Brandon, what would your advice or input or kind of expectation setting messaging be for builders and developers in particular, who might want to purchase prefab homes, whether those are developers, someone else's, you know, that really need to understand that there is a process involved. It's not like you're getting rid of the need for all contractors and solving all the labor issues, which I know are so acutely painful right now within the industry in general.

00:25:58:09 - 00:26:00:25
Sara Gutterman: So what are your words of advice there?

00:26:00:27 - 00:26:18:24
Brandon Weiss: Yeah, I'd say definitely visit a site, buy whatever modular company you'd be working with, one of their, go to one of their project sites and see the actual product, go to the factory and see it being produced so you can understand the intricacies. And maybe, you know, everyone has a different approach. So just understanding what the approach is from different companies.

00:26:18:24 - 00:26:39:21
Brandon Weiss: And I think the other part of that advice is just having to understand that, you know, and working with a company that's trying to build a lot of homes, there has to be consistency across all the homes in the portfolio, right? So we do things a certain way. That's our way that we've intended is is the best in terms of performance, quality, longevity, customer experience, all these things.

00:26:39:21 - 00:27:03:24
Brandon Weiss: Right. And so we need all of our homes to be the same though in terms of these details. So if there's an issue in the future, we can look back and we know what was done versus, you know, a lot of a lot of contractors have different ideas of how to do certain things. And I think in working with a modular company, it's just important to understand that there details need to override those.

00:27:03:25 - 00:27:26:11
Brandon Weiss: And as long as they work from a, again, a longevity and a building science and, and a physics perspective, then it's important to to adhere to those. And so we've had discussions with some of our site partners in the past. And they had a different way to do something, or they had a different material that they were able to secure locally.

00:27:26:11 - 00:27:48:06
Brandon Weiss: And a lot of times we supply the materials up to the job site, but if they were short on something, it's like, hey, we can just do this and say, you know, you got to slow down for a second. We got to get the right materials and do this the way it's detailed and, and a lot of that does fall back onto the company like ourselves, producing a site manual where everything is detailed and documented on what other steps and procedures, how you do each phase of the project.

00:27:48:06 - 00:28:24:14
Brandon Weiss: So once, once the project lands on the on the foundation, on site, you know, we have a step by step process that goes through trade by trade or work scope by work scope in order to help them get to that consistency and that that end product that develops and that we've our customer expects from us. And so, yeah, understand understanding product, understanding the details and visiting and seeing how these things are done and ensuring that it's something you're up for, would be my advice to anybody that is looking to get on that path or or work with a company to do a project.

00:28:24:17 - 00:28:43:26
Sara Gutterman: Is there anything in your experience with builders and developers that have stood out as something that has been historically been a challenge that maybe you've learned some good lessons from? And, you know, you now see it as more of an opportunity as opposed to a challenge, something you've you've solved for that. That was kind of a big issue in the past.

00:28:43:29 - 00:29:03:22
Brandon Weiss: Yeah. We're continuing to iterate our process to try to streamline that site process and reduce that as much as possible. So to the extent we can have connections living in really it's a lot of module two module type connections. So there's structural connections that need to be made. We spend that up so that can be completed in a day.

00:29:03:24 - 00:29:25:09
Brandon Weiss: Our air sealing and like dry in phase can be completed in one day now. And then again all of our insulation is on the exterior. So piecing that together. So now we're working through how we can get those pieces kind of prefabricated. So they just like fit in perfectly. And it's not you know, having to cut or modify materials.

00:29:25:09 - 00:29:49:20
Brandon Weiss: And that has the cladding already already attached to it. So that's kind of something we're working on now to try to speed up some of the exterior process. So again, getting that done in less than a week would be would be great, where the whole exterior of the house has done 100%. And then it's the interior work. When we build a one story home, all those connections for the mechanicals are all underneath in the crawl space, and we typically leave about a three foot crawl space.

00:29:49:20 - 00:30:15:29
Brandon Weiss: So bringing those two what we call the marriage line so they can just be piece together pretty quickly and effectively and cleanly, something we've we've put more effort into and make sure everything's documented. There's, there's plan pages that show, you know, for an HVAC where those connections are and the plumbing. So all those pipes are there's an ass built there where they can just look and say, okay, you know, basically check off these ten connections and I'm done.

00:30:16:00 - 00:30:47:28
Brandon Weiss: And then it's the next trade up type type role. So and then there's some interior with like, dry walling at the ceiling and the walls where things come together. And then finishing that flooring and like baseboard type work, but really try to minimize the extent of the site work, although it does still exist and it will always exist on a multi module project, but to the effect that it is really well documented and.

00:30:48:00 - 00:31:05:22
Brandon Weiss: And yeah, and really defined before they get there. So the expectations are no, the materials are known and and the work scope is known. So it just makes everything easier versus showing up on a job site. And just kind of the first first few hours is just planning and trying to figure stuff out. We're trying to take that part out of the equation.

00:31:05:24 - 00:31:31:08
Sara Gutterman: Gotcha. Okay. So then my last question before Mike takes control back and asks you the handful of questions that have come in already from the audience, and it sounds like there's more coming in. So, Brandon, the modular and offsite construction market is more advanced in Asia and in Europe. Here in the US, you know, there have been some challenges just in general for prefab.

00:31:31:09 - 00:31:51:23
Sara Gutterman: We've seen Katara and Vive and some other companies, you know, kind of emerge on the scene quite rapidly and then fizzle out. What does the next iteration of the prefab market look like here in the US? What's kind of, you know, prefab 2.0, so to speak?

00:31:51:25 - 00:32:02:02
Brandon Weiss: Well, we definitely hope it is centered to that. And I think at this point where we're at, we've taken learning lessons from all of those. We haven't.

00:32:02:04 - 00:32:18:28
Brandon Weiss: Gone through some of the same steps of some of those other companies and have tried to really focus on our product first, product market fit second, we haven't had to. We've changed things, yes, but haven't made large pivots in terms of product or what type, product, product category we were going after. You know, we started in single family.

00:32:18:28 - 00:32:46:10
Brandon Weiss: We're still in single family, but it's not. It's just a matter of doing infill versus development type projects. Really. It wasn't a complete change and into parts from one element to the other. And I think, you know, looking at the housing shortage across the country, we know that the production home builders looking at their annual numbers and a lot of our public companies aren't going to get to the solve that equation.

00:32:46:11 - 00:33:06:25
Brandon Weiss: We know that even if we scale to our goal of ten factories over the next ten years, that we also wouldn't be a solution. It's going to be it needs to be all these things working together, and it needs to be several companies that can produce offsite. You know, the production homebuilders will still be doing what they do and and building those their homes.

00:33:06:25 - 00:33:15:14
Brandon Weiss: And I think as a group, the problem needs to be tackled. And it's definitely a problem worth tackling. And it's just.

00:33:15:16 - 00:33:45:22
Brandon Weiss: There space for different for different types of focuses. So ours is on very much on the health, the energy efficiency, the environmental side of it and trying to deliver a high quality product. And I think some of it too needs to happen with with regulations. You know, it's it's kind of hard to look at building the same product across all climates and across the whole country when there's so many different codes in very various cities or municipalities, counties that change, you know, maybe three miles from each other.

00:33:45:22 - 00:34:15:29
Brandon Weiss: So, you know, there's the HUD for manufactured housing, the HUD code, which is a national and federal standard, and that's allowed those companies to do to do really well in scale. And they've had success and they've built that product category for a long time now. And those companies have been in existence for a long time. I think looking at how we getting that type of code, regulations across the modular industry would be highly powerful in trying to solve and help the companies that are trying to solve this problem really achieve the scale.

00:34:15:29 - 00:34:38:27
Brandon Weiss: So it's something that we're really focused on right now to is, is how we can get more federalized standard to be able to produce our homes anywhere and everywhere and with minimal intervention by the local municipalities, because all of our most of our inspections happen in the factory, as our homes are being built by third party verified inspectors that the states count on to go and make sure that things are being built according to the the codes.

00:34:38:27 - 00:35:02:11
Brandon Weiss: But our homes are all built above, way above and beyond any of the code standards. And and we do build to the factory built, which is the modular code. We build the HUD code, but we build to our standard when we build the code. And then we also have built to the NC standard for RV park model units, again, using all of our standard assemblies and just incorporating, you know, the requirements of those codes.

00:35:02:11 - 00:35:14:28
Brandon Weiss: But really our, our part of supersedes those. So it's achieving the scale and looking at how we do that, the regulations is going to be important for the next frontier of of modular 2.0.

00:35:15:01 - 00:35:27:05
Sara Gutterman: Thank you. Great response Mike. I see you back on. I'm going to hand it over to you to take over the questioning of Brandon.

00:35:27:08 - 00:35:47:05
Mike Collignon: Yes, that sounds so sinister with a question. Brandon for a long time. No, I'm just kidding. We have some wonderful questions actually from our audience. And so I know we only have 20 minutes, so we'll get to as many as we can. One of them that came in from Glenn and you were talking about, you know, we do infill projects.

00:35:47:05 - 00:35:58:26
Mike Collignon: So he was curious if you have any plans to build what he referred to as stackable homes, multi-story, you know, like 4 to 8 story type of projects.

00:35:58:28 - 00:36:19:17
Brandon Weiss: Again, we're really focused on what we're doing and we have done and we do well. And that is a single family space. Now, that's not just we we are also doing on some upcoming projects townhome or row home type where it's the same module stacked and just, you know, kind of that that firewall between is the only difference.

00:36:19:17 - 00:36:40:28
Brandon Weiss: But it's really the same product category. Now when you go 4 to 8 stories, that's, that's a that's somewhat of a completely different. And we know that eventually that will need to be a solution, especially as we as we endeavor into mixed use developments and larger developments that need good variety of product types in there throughout those communities.

00:36:40:28 - 00:36:58:10
Brandon Weiss: And so, yeah, we're not there yet, and it's not the focus yet. We want to tackle this single family issue and then attached kind of multifamily where it still follows the same principles. So we can really achieve the scale in the near term that we're looking for.

00:36:58:12 - 00:37:10:29
Mike Collignon: Okay. And I think that probably gets to one of the questions I had about the came in about, you know, do you have any designs for multifamily or multi-generational homes. So we'll get past that one.

00:37:11:06 - 00:37:27:23
Brandon Weiss: I think. I think keep an eye on our website in those plans. We are finalizing that. Like I said, the row home, townhome type, attached multifamily. And so look look for those updates on our on our website. Those will be up there in the near future. Right?

00:37:27:26 - 00:37:49:24
Mike Collignon: I think to to to Royce's question about, you know, their finished houses to share. Definitely check out the devil website. Also the project they're doing with Green Builder Media. And you're going to get to see pictures of some of these finished homes. So you get a sense for for what, what they're offering and just the high quality nature of it.

00:37:49:26 - 00:37:57:18
Brandon Weiss: If it's looking at just some some pictures of completed projects, I can share my screen and just scroll a few shots if that would be helpful.

00:37:57:20 - 00:38:20:25
Mike Collignon: No, that's that's fine. And Mary was also nice enough to put a link in the chat to the devil website that people can click on and check that out as they continue to listen to our conversation. But also don't click away yet because Brandon is showing you live here on screen some of the different images that they've got of some of their products.

00:38:20:28 - 00:38:24:11
Mike Collignon: If you don't mind, Brian, I'm going to go ahead and continue asking you a couple more questions.

00:38:24:12 - 00:38:28:08
Brandon Weiss: Sure. I'll scroll through these slowly here and go ahead.

00:38:28:11 - 00:38:54:17
Mike Collignon: Yeah. So a lot of interest in the foundation aspect of what you've got going on, multiple people asking questions about it. So let's spend just a couple of minutes talking about the foundation. So Sarah. Sarah, you were just talking to a different. Sarah wanted to know, can you use a slab foundation for your home? Another person asked, what is the basement floor material?

00:38:54:19 - 00:39:00:01
Mike Collignon: So let's start with those two questions, and then we'll go on to a couple more foundation focused questions.

00:39:00:04 - 00:39:29:08
Brandon Weiss: Sure. So can we build on slab? The answer is currently no. We try to keep the interior space of our homes as finished as possible. And when when there's multiple modules, those those connections between electric, plumbing, HVAC, they need to take place somewhere. And so we've chosen to connect those within the floor structure. And so that takes place down below.

00:39:29:10 - 00:39:48:26
Brandon Weiss: And the two story home. We do have to have some open areas to make those connections. But we try to put those in areas that aren't in kind of the main, main spaces of the home. And you know what the, our, our foundation system is gives us about a three foot clearance between the bottom of the floor structure and the top of the slab.

00:39:48:26 - 00:40:07:17
Brandon Weiss: And so we have down there is a is a two inch slab nonstructural. It's just to kind of keep things clean, allow maintenance and things like that and good clean storage for the homes. And then below that is a.

00:40:07:20 - 00:40:27:17
Brandon Weiss: Vapor barrier. And then we have insulation insulation below that. So our tender our 20 insulation below the slab. And so that is kind of the six side of our of our building enclosure. And so it has both a defined air barrier as well as a defined thermal boundary.

00:40:27:19 - 00:40:39:13
Mike Collignon: Awesome. That's great. And a couple more like I said questions on this. Is there anything that you need additional when you're installing the prefab as opposed to a traditional home?

00:40:39:15 - 00:40:41:11
Brandon Weiss: For the foundation or for the home overall?

00:40:41:19 - 00:40:43:10
Mike Collignon: For the foundation, for the foundation? Sorry.

00:40:43:16 - 00:41:02:17
Brandon Weiss: The foundation. No, I mean, really, when we showed up into the first one, it was a strip, just a footing design to the the loads of the home and the location of the home, seismic, all that kind of thing taken into account. And then we we brought our, our panel.

00:41:02:19 - 00:41:17:01
Brandon Weiss: Foundation panels out there and yeah, we brought the connection, the connectors, the panels themselves. And it was 100% complete. We didn't really need anything else, some bracing, but that's all stuff that we brought with us on that one.

00:41:17:03 - 00:41:25:02
Mike Collignon: And and speaking of that foundation system, is that is that your like proprietary system? Is it a third party system?

00:41:25:04 - 00:41:45:12
Brandon Weiss: It's a proprietary system. Yeah. So we produce that in our in our manufacturing facility using the same machinery that we build our modules with. So just getting more use out of those, those machines and, and allowing again more, more scalability and cost control and, and how we produce our foundation systems.

00:41:45:14 - 00:41:58:12
Mike Collignon: Okay, okay. And then another material question for you, Joyce wanted to know do you use double or triple glazed windows. And also she was curious about your patio doors.

00:41:58:14 - 00:42:16:07
Brandon Weiss: Yeah. So the patio doors are European lift and slide and all of our windows are European tilt turn windows. And we that is one of the levers that we changed from, from climate zone to climate zone is is the window glazing unit. So we do both double and triple depending on the climate zone.

00:42:16:10 - 00:42:17:27
Brandon Weiss: Well you.

00:42:17:29 - 00:42:46:17
Mike Collignon: You couldn't have built a better segue to my next question because my friend Kim asks, you know, when you build a repetitive model, it can be challenged by climate zones in the West. Kim was a longtime resident of New Mexico, and he says, hey, out there, we had zones 3 to 7. So do you build to the coldest zones, which isn't all that bad for warm zones to achieve simplified specifications.

00:42:46:20 - 00:43:18:12
Brandon Weiss: Currently, we're building one assembly that works well and is very energy efficient in compared to, you know, conventional construction or code built construction still is achieving our self-powered initiative. And as well as living, living up from a building science and a physics perspective to make sure we don't have like again, those condensation problems. So yeah, we are building at this .11 assembly and have a couple levers like the window glazing units that we can change depending on climate.

00:43:18:14 - 00:43:54:13
Mike Collignon: Okay, okay. And then I wanted to make sure to put a call out final call for questions to the audience. We do have another one from Kim. I know you've worked on single family. What he was curious about was was talking about single family, but on a small subdivision scale. What he was curious about was if you if you were to move into that kind of model of small subdivision scale, 50 homes or less, are you as a company exploring anything like grid tied microgrids?

00:43:54:15 - 00:44:20:02
Brandon Weiss: Oh, 100%, yeah, that's definitely a big part of what we're doing. All of our homes do have as a standard solar and battery. And so, I said, like I said earlier in the the call, getting extracting more value out of those by, by having these communities that all have that same asset, the same energy requirements or very low energy requirements and have abundant energy storage.

00:44:20:04 - 00:44:46:27
Brandon Weiss: Yeah, we're definitely looking at a microgrid and those those interacting with each other as well as the greater good, greater grid outside. Now the greater grid outside is probably a factor of larger than 20 homes. But just to be able to reduce that, that generalized localized peak power demand. But, yeah, 20 home communities definitely can interact with each other and, and the grid as a whole.

00:44:46:29 - 00:44:54:09
Brandon Weiss: And so microgrid is definitely something we've done and are focused on doing a lot of in the future.

00:44:54:11 - 00:45:05:13
Mike Collignon: Okay, let's let's keep the topic on energy for just a moment. Joyce wanted to know what is the size of the solar batteries that you all install.

00:45:05:16 - 00:45:12:27
Brandon Weiss: So we have options on anything from 20 kilowatt hours to 80 kilowatt hours.

00:45:13:00 - 00:45:14:04
Mike Collignon: All right.

00:45:14:07 - 00:45:24:22
Mike Collignon: And then going back to the climate zone question Glenn wanted to know if you have a product for what he considers the coldest areas of the country.

00:45:24:25 - 00:45:34:28
Brandon Weiss: We do. Yep. We've actually built homes in two of those places so far, which are like climate zone, the climate zone.

00:45:34:28 - 00:45:36:29
Mike Collignon: Six seven.

00:45:37:01 - 00:45:42:01
Brandon Weiss: Seven seven. Yes. Yeah. High altitude, high altitude, Rocky Mountains.

00:45:42:04 - 00:45:51:13
Mike Collignon: Yeah. Well, then you talking about California and you got I think they've got climate zones one through 16 or something. Crazy because they've got all these different microclimates.

00:45:51:15 - 00:45:55:13
Brandon Weiss: Yeah, exactly.

00:45:55:15 - 00:46:23:18
Mike Collignon: I was curious on something. So I'm going to interject a question here. Brandon, I think you alluded to it a little bit earlier. We've seen recently some pushback on the decision that HUD has made to to move to a more stringent energy code. You know, for the Fannie and Freddie, basically, the agency is considering going to a more stringent energy coast and pushback from from the Home Builders Association.

00:46:23:20 - 00:46:38:14
Mike Collignon: What's your take on that whole topic of, you know, all this is so cost prohibitive and this is going to price people out of the market. Home homeowners priced them out of the market. What do you say to that?

00:46:38:16 - 00:46:57:11
Brandon Weiss: I think it's a it's a short term kind of comment. You know, like when you look at what it means for someone to own a home, it's not just the upfront cost of the home, it is the upfront cost of a home, plus the operational cost of a home. And the operational cost of a home happens. As long as you own the home, the upfront cost happens.

00:46:57:11 - 00:47:29:29
Brandon Weiss: Once you manage your money, you put the deposit down, get your rate fixed and that can be fixed for 30 years. But that operational thing happens every year. So and for if we're talking about affordable affordability or for, you know, lower or lower middle income type families, the energy and operational costs of their living in their expenses has a much greater impact on their, you know, compared to their their salary or their earnings than it does on, on a, a higher wealth individual.

00:47:30:00 - 00:47:50:25
Brandon Weiss: Right, because that is greater proportion of their income. So when you look at operational costs, that's what I would, I guess, push back on, is that building these energy efficient measures is only going to help the operational ownership cost of that home, and people will be able to retain those homes for a long period of time and maintain manage their homes.

00:47:50:27 - 00:47:53:00
Mike Collignon: Yeah, yeah I couldn't agree with quality.

00:47:53:03 - 00:48:14:11
Brandon Weiss: Thing too. Like there's there's good unintended consequences, I'd say, of a building more energy efficient. You know, you get a quieter home in a lot of elements. You again, if you do it the right way, you you make create a more durable home that doesn't have some of the issues and maintenance issues associated with building, you know, just standard, standard code type homes.

00:48:14:11 - 00:48:36:19
Brandon Weiss: So I think when you look at this from a bigger picture, that that case could be made on both sides, like if you're only looking at upfront cost, of course there's going to be a little bit of an increase. But what does that do? And when you look at whole ownership and that's kind of everywhere in the world, most other places in the world, I'll say, look at that cost of ownership versus just upfront cost, I think is a very American thing to look at.

00:48:36:19 - 00:48:39:03
Brandon Weiss: Just that upfront cost of the home.

00:48:39:06 - 00:48:41:26
Mike Collignon: Right.

00:48:41:28 - 00:48:47:16
Mike Collignon: So I want to get to a couple more questions before you run out of time here, Brandon.

00:48:47:18 - 00:49:02:14
Mike Collignon: Had a question going back to materials for a second, and we're going to go back to to costs. Cheryl wanted to know what is the roofing material that you use and why did you choose the roof pitch that you did?

00:49:02:17 - 00:49:23:07
Brandon Weiss: So again, our homes are kind of dictated by their performance and it's not so much we started with this esthetic design. It's not saying that this will be it forever, but again, we wanted to try to get a product out there that appeals to the mass market that people could love and that we could really scale with, and then we could look at different architectural styles as time goes on.

00:49:23:07 - 00:49:48:27
Brandon Weiss: But we're really defined by performance in that architectural styles. I'll start by answering with that. But second to that we use a TPO membrane on the roof. And and yeah. So the slope was dictated just by a modern design that we thought works in a lot of places and is kind of timeless architecture. And then the T.O. membrane works really well with that good durable material.

00:49:49:00 - 00:49:56:00
Brandon Weiss: We can do a lot of it in the factory and then cross over the marriage line with it on site.

00:49:56:02 - 00:50:05:21
Brandon Weiss: It meets all the you can build a class A fire and assembly with it, and so and works well with with solar as well. So kind of checked all the boxes.

00:50:05:21 - 00:50:09:27
Mike Collignon: They're awesome.

00:50:09:29 - 00:50:22:14
Mike Collignon: We're going to get to two more questions. I think we've got time for two more. Stephen wanted to know what is the garage product look like or is that something separate added on later.

00:50:22:17 - 00:50:40:22
Brandon Weiss: We do we do create when we're doing homes. We do make the garages as well. Garage is being a larger volume space, you know, typically wider than 16ft. And that's something we ship volumetric, but something we prefabricated the wall panels for and the ceiling trusses for in the factory. And flat stack doesn't send the site much like the foundation structure.

00:50:40:29 - 00:51:01:05
Brandon Weiss: So there's a solution for that. You know, in doing it that way, a little more site build components, but we're not shipping a bunch of air that doesn't have as much value. Like, you know, there's a lot of time involved with doing a kitchen with countertops and cabinets and plumbing connections and electrical and flooring and backsplash is all these things.

00:51:01:05 - 00:51:18:07
Brandon Weiss: So doing that in a factory makes makes all the sense in the world. But when you come to just a garage, it's basically a box with drywall on the inside. Or maybe, maybe sometimes it doesn't even have an interior cladding like that. Yeah, there's not as much value baked into it. So flat stacking that and just doing that on site does the solution we do there.

00:51:18:10 - 00:51:40:06
Brandon Weiss: A lot of our homes have had detached garages, which works well for air quality and but you know depending on climate zone, you know there could be a breezeway between that and the house if you still want that disconnected or we have, we have built garages attached to homes to. So I think there's examples of both of those in that those slides I was going through here.

00:51:40:08 - 00:51:58:09
Mike Collignon: Our final question, because it is on the minds of numerous people who have emailed in, is, okay, Randon, you've got this high quality product. It performs really well. But the American question is, how much more is it than the normal sticks that we've been building with for 150 years?

00:51:58:15 - 00:52:02:01
Brandon Weiss: I don't know, we're back to the upfront cost thing,

00:52:02:03 - 00:52:03:02
Mike Collignon: Escape it. We're still.

00:52:03:02 - 00:52:05:16
Mike Collignon: In the US.

00:52:05:19 - 00:52:24:02
Brandon Weiss: In this cost per square foot. Now we we have continued to drive down our cost since we started. And kind of we started with the similar philosophy of Tesla, where they started with the Roadster baked and all the performance. Then we able to do the model S and then come to model three, and they started with the X and then came down to the Y for the SUV side of it.

00:52:24:02 - 00:52:40:29
Brandon Weiss: And that's kind of the approach we've taken where we wanted to make sure we baked in all the performance, the quality things I wanted to. And then as we to Sarah alluded to this earlier, as we scale, we'll get better buying power and better economy of scale there for the for our manufacturing partners that we deal with.

00:52:40:29 - 00:52:59:09
Brandon Weiss: And so that's one way we've been able to drive costs down and will definitely as we scale up as we're talking ten factories that will continue to drive down our cost over the future, just getting more efficient with labor and production and and continuing to work through that. Like I said, we're we're finding some things to help the site costs come together.

00:52:59:11 - 00:53:20:02
Brandon Weiss: But yeah, we, we're continuing. Yeah. Drive that down and we know we're going to get that to that we call the missing middle. And where there's, you know, a huge demand for homes across the country in every state. You know, we've talked this state has 25,000, the state is 100,000 homes short, you know, across the whole country.

00:53:20:02 - 00:53:31:16
Brandon Weiss: That's just the repeating, repeating thing we're hearing. So we know we need to get down to that price point. And we're continuing to drive it down. And and we've done some great work on that so far. And we'll continue to to get there.

00:53:31:18 - 00:53:32:08
Mike Collignon: Well, I'm being.

00:53:32:08 - 00:53:33:13
Mike Collignon: 100 I guess.

00:53:33:21 - 00:53:48:17
Brandon Weiss: If you're interested to reach out. And definitely if you have a development or something, talk to our sales team on that and the number of homes. And we can definitely have more specific costs. Conversations around that.

00:53:48:19 - 00:53:49:25
Mike Collignon: Awesome, awesome.

00:53:49:26 - 00:54:11:03
Mike Collignon: Well, I am being 100% genuine to our audience when I say I've known brand for quite a while, I know that he's always done quality work, and if I ever look to build a home, I'm certainly going to be looking at what he's got out there, because I know he's got a quality product. So that's that's nobody's paying me say that.

00:54:11:03 - 00:54:34:18
Mike Collignon: That's just I know, Brandon, so thank you very much for coming on today. I really do appreciate it. This has been super exciting, insightful. People have had a ton of questions. There have been very engaged really to appreciate it. Also want to thank our sponsors as well, Schneider Electric, Panasonic Healthy Indoor Living Solutions and Genco Solar for their sponsorships.

00:54:34:19 - 00:54:55:28
Mike Collignon: Now, if you liked what you heard today and you want to check out the housing 2.0 program, we have a series two workshops that are coming up. They're not going to start until October 17th, so that's quite a ways away, I get it, but this is the kind of stuff that Sam and I talk about in the housing 2.0 program.

00:54:56:00 - 00:55:18:09
Mike Collignon: Brandon mentioned it earlier, Chris and Kurt, good. John, they've gone through the program as well and we really enjoyed having them in there. So if you want to get some of the information like this and talk more about these type of topics and these details, please sign up. You can register at Green Builder Media.

00:55:18:12 - 00:55:40:18
Mike Collignon: Dash 2.0. Now our next Thought Leader webinar is going to be on Wednesday, June 12th at our usual start time at 2 p.m. eastern time. We're going to be talking about getting to zero at the lowest cost with Scott Sanders of Bright Leaf Homes. Thanks again for attending everyone. Until next time, keep smiling. Stay safe.