KB Home sustainability vice president Jacob Atalla and Earth Finance water and nature lead Will Sarni examine how WaterSense-labeled homes, residential microgrids, and decentralized water technologies address the energy-water nexus in drought- and blackout-prone communities.
00:00:11:27 - 00:00:33:03
Mike Collignon: Our next session features two speakers that I have the privilege of knowing through my work in the water efficiency space. For those who don't know, I am the chair of the Words Development Group and the co-producer of the Next Generation Water Summit as well. So I do work there in addition to my work with green building media. So our first speaker is Will Sahni.
00:00:33:05 - 00:00:59:03
Mike Collignon: He is the practice lead for Water and Nature at Earth Finance. Now, prior to Water Foundries, acquisition by Earth Finance will serve as the firm's founder and CEO before founding Water Foundry. He was a managing director at Deloitte Consulting, where he established and led the global water strategy practice. Will's a visionary leader in corporate water and nature strategy, technology innovation and technology investing.
00:00:59:09 - 00:01:22:17
Mike Collignon: He is an investor in water and ag tech companies and has been a sustainability and water strategy advisor to multinationals, water technology companies, investors and NGOs for his entire career. He is the author of numerous publications and books on water strategy and innovation. He is joined by Jacob Batalla, who is the Vice President of sustainability Initiatives for KB Homes Now.
00:01:22:19 - 00:01:42:20
Mike Collignon: Through his leadership, KB homes has won numerous water since builder of the year awards. Jacob and I have worked together on water efficiency policy matters, and we're going to see each other at the next Generation Water Summit in just five short weeks. Now their session is called power, Water and Survival. The race to keep the lights on and taps flowing.
00:01:42:23 - 00:02:02:01
Mike Collignon: Now, Jacob is going to talk about how imperative it is for builders to conserve water, and how doing so might just allow you to continue building. While Mr. Sahni will discuss tech and innovations that help us elevate our efficiency practices. Now, Jacob, we're going to start with you, sir.
00:02:02:03 - 00:02:39:18
Jacob Atalla: Well, thank you, Mike. It's a pleasure to be with everyone here today at this very important symposium. I want to just start by stating that for KB home, the sustainability journey started in the year 2000. And since then, we've grown. We've grown our initiatives. And last week we published our 18th sustainability report. I invite you all to take a look at it if you'd like.
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Jacob Atalla: But one thing I want to highlight in there is that we respond to the Sustainability Accounting Standards Board sasb disclosure in that disclosure.
00:02:54:01 - 00:03:30:23
Jacob Atalla: They ask, how many homes have you delivered that are in water stressed area areas, and they give the resource or the reference for what? For these regions, through an atlas called the Water Resource Resources Institute WRI Water Risk athletes. So then we map to that atlas and we in during last year, 60% of our deliveries were in regions with high or extremely high baseline water stress.
00:03:30:27 - 00:04:10:08
Jacob Atalla: So for that reason, and for several years now, KB home has recognized that water efficiency is an emerging home building imperative. And we took an early lead on it. And it is it's putting it plainly it is right to operate issue. We are seeing that in some of the extremely water water stressed areas. And we're seeing sometimes, you know, local.
00:04:10:10 - 00:04:23:01
Jacob Atalla: Rules and regulations that either elevate the price of a water meter very, very high or ask for bring water rights with you or.
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Jacob Atalla: No permits for a while, moratorium on permits. So for these reasons, we leaned into water sense as our core water efficiency focus. Next slide please. Just to give you a little bit more perspective, we have been a leader in in the water efficiency in terms of counts. So we have over 26,000 water sense labeled homes and water smart labeled homes.
00:04:59:05 - 00:05:32:29
Jacob Atalla: That's from the Southern Nevada Water Authority, which preceded watersheds. And in a sense, water sense program is a result or a lot of its foundation came from the water Smart program at Southern Nevada Water Authority. We've installed since 2009 over 1.2 million water science fixtures and all that together, the water sense labeled homes and fixtures we estimated to save 2.1 billion gallons of water a year.
00:05:33:03 - 00:06:05:10
Jacob Atalla: These kind of statistics help us as builders and developers in getting permits to build homes and deliver and deliver them to people who really need housing and need it to be affordable as well. And next slide please. So with Water Sense, I just want to lean into two studies to set the frame for Will's conversation with us about innovations related to sustainability.
00:06:05:10 - 00:06:33:25
Jacob Atalla: But first, case studies that took these fundamental things just water sense labeled fixtures, water sense labeled homes that are following the full guideline from the landscaping all the way to inside the house for water sense. And there are two studies that I think will help us today, put a little bit of a framework around what we're going to talk about.
00:06:34:01 - 00:07:14:20
Jacob Atalla: One was in Las Vegas in 2022, and there are links to these. If you when you get the slides, there are links to both these studies if you'd like to take a look at them. This study the first one was in Las Vegas. It was on homes already moved into operating and they looked at the water bills. So the actual use of these homes with people living in them, and it was a very eye opening to see the results of these homes versus homes in the neighborhood that are not water sense labeled homes.
00:07:14:22 - 00:07:45:29
Jacob Atalla: The other study came few years later in in 2024. And it is looking at also the water conservation through water sense labeled homes. But these homes also had heat pump systems and were net zero as well. And so the study here was about saving water and saving carbon, giving a little bit more context to that nexus of water and energy.
00:07:46:01 - 00:08:22:10
Jacob Atalla: Next slide please. So let's dive just at a very high level with the results of these studies. So summary of the first one. Again in Las Vegas 160 homes. Is that the medium water use of the homes that were in the study was 44,000 gallons per year, compared to what's around them, at 94,000 gallons per year, 53% annual savings between the water sense labeled homes and what's around.
00:08:22:14 - 00:08:54:09
Jacob Atalla: That's important for us as builders, as we and developers, as we go to get permits from jurisdictions, work with them on the water stress that they are facing in their area. It's also important to see that that kind of water, if you take one acre foot of water, seven and a half homes of water, sense homes will be served by that, by that water.
00:08:54:15 - 00:09:19:01
Jacob Atalla: Versus if there were the typical homes, only 3 to 4 homes. These are the kind of statistics and techniques and the results that that we can take to jurisdictions to have a permit to operate. The next study again focused. Next slide please.
00:09:19:03 - 00:10:00:16
Jacob Atalla: Focused on a community. Two communities of KB home in Southern California. These are called the connected communities. There were two communities in the microgrid study. And these are net zero energy homes as well as water sense labeled homes. We're almost at build out now in that community. And again, with heat pump systems and all the efficiencies of the homes and the landscaping and all that you see here, some of the results for at buildout at 219 homes.
00:10:00:17 - 00:10:35:13
Jacob Atalla: These are the projected results for water saving, energy savings and carbon reductions. It can't get any better. But let's also it does get better because the water savings and the energy savings create savings for the homeowners on their utility bills, which relates to what Sarah said in her in her opening remarks about lowering the total cost of ownership is part of how we improve affordability going forward.
00:10:35:15 - 00:10:40:21
Jacob Atalla: And so next slide please.
00:10:40:23 - 00:11:11:00
Jacob Atalla: I invite you to just read the whole report. But just this slide here for me says a lot. This is for the whole community. The 219 homes. If the community was not with net zero homes and without the water sense labeled homes, you see how much energy it would have used versus the column next to that on the in the left chart.
00:11:11:02 - 00:11:43:20
Jacob Atalla: How much this whole community uses much less energy. And then the same with carbon emissions, way less carbon emissions. And as we continue to go forward and need to address the climate change imperative, we are, these are the tools that we can use now. Will will show us more about some innovations and other tools. And I'm excited about that.
00:11:43:23 - 00:11:49:18
Jacob Atalla: Next slide please.
00:11:49:20 - 00:12:26:13
Jacob Atalla: So just to close we can save water and energy. We can enhance resilience with, you know homes that can be resilient to to drought but also the resilience of the entire community to resist the water stress and and mitigate it. And then, of course, supporting carbon reductions and improving affordability. With that, I'll turn it back to Mike and Will.
00:12:26:16 - 00:12:42:20
Mike Collignon: Thank you much, Jacob. Much appreciated sir. And now we are going to pass it over to Will. Will's going to share a few slides with us. And then that will lead into interactive discussion with Jacob, Will and Sarah. So Will.
00:12:42:22 - 00:13:11:11
Will Sarni: All right. Well great thanks to the opportunity to be here. Exciting topic. Love talking about water and more importantly, innovation. You know, before I sort of dive into this, I want to just emphasize Jacob's point, which is so critical, and it was really well presented that we're not doing any of these things in a silo. This is really about co-benefits and broader value creation.
00:13:11:17 - 00:13:47:03
Will Sarni: You know, for the the the builder, you know, the homeowner and communities. So thank you, Jacob, for teeing that up really nicely. I just really can't emphasize it enough. So who am I? Recently Water Foundry was acquired by Earth Finance. So Water Foundry is now an earth finance company. I believe the water and nature practice for earth finance, and work with my colleagues that are focused on decarbonization, how to finance decarbonization and renewable fuels.
00:13:47:03 - 00:14:04:21
Will Sarni: So and also a geospatial technology capability that's cross-cutting. So in a good place and excited to really look at these issues and integrated fashion. So next slide please.
00:14:04:23 - 00:14:18:01
Will Sarni: Why water. I will walk through the water risk reality here. Next slide please.
00:14:18:04 - 00:14:20:25
Will Sarni: So.
00:14:20:28 - 00:14:27:17
Will Sarni: I think you may have the wrong deck but I will run through this.
00:14:27:19 - 00:14:44:10
Will Sarni: So why water. We've got roughly about 2.3 people 2.3 billion people that live in water stressed countries. Almost a billion people don't have access to basic water services.
00:14:44:13 - 00:15:15:19
Will Sarni: About the value of water is roughly about $58 trillion, which is 60% of the global GDP, which was calculated by WWF. Based on data from, I want to say, 2021 day zero in term of art, we hear that all the time with the media talking about when communities might actually lose access to water, which is not really the case.
00:15:15:19 - 00:15:27:20
Will Sarni: What typically happens is that those can afford it, get water and those it can't pay a disproportionately high percentage for water. Next slide please.
00:15:27:22 - 00:16:03:29
Will Sarni: Why worry. Water is undervalued. It's viewed as essentially free. Economic systems in both the public and the private sector don't really take into account what Jacob brought up with respect to the nexus between energy, water and carbon. What is poorly governed? In particular, if you look at the Colorado River basin, you'll see that it's over allocated and we're bumping into public policy and regulations that are about 100 years old.
00:16:04:02 - 00:16:26:07
Will Sarni: And, you know, Jacob again talked about climate change and carbon. And really what happens is that climate change is a threat multiplier. It makes the issues that we face in the world of water more severe in many ways. Next slide please.
00:16:26:10 - 00:16:42:02
Will Sarni: I often talk about water as a wicked problem and that it is not easily solved by.
00:16:42:04 - 00:16:48:05
Will Sarni: Excuse me, I'm having a problem on the technical side.
00:16:48:08 - 00:17:13:06
Will Sarni: It's not solved by one stakeholder group. And again I want to refer back to Jacob's presentation that it really takes the builders, the communities, technology companies, investors and so on to really come up with solutions to wicked water problems, but also intersection with climate. Next slide.
00:17:13:08 - 00:17:35:01
Will Sarni: This is an illustration of that point. What we see is that public sector has size and scale. They don't have speed. Entrepreneurs have a lot of speed and focus, but they don't have scale and everyone sits in between. So if you look at the role of the private sector, they have the ability to really sort of bridge both ends of this.
00:17:35:01 - 00:17:54:03
Will Sarni: And that's incredibly powerful. And again, you know, what builders are doing and corporations are doing right now is incredibly significant in terms of building business ecosystems and actually driving change. Next slide please.
00:17:54:06 - 00:18:10:23
Will Sarni: On a pause for a moment because this is in fact not the right deck. And maybe if I can just do a voiceover without slides we can dive into a conversation if that works very well. Does that work for you? Mike?
00:18:10:26 - 00:18:15:11
Mike Collignon: That works just fine, sir. The slides have been removed and now it's all you.
00:18:15:11 - 00:18:22:17
Will Sarni: But oh man, can you imagine? We're going to have a conversation. So. Yeah. What's that anyway?
00:18:22:18 - 00:18:24:15
Mike Collignon: Questions?
00:18:24:17 - 00:18:35:18
Will Sarni: Well, let me just touch on a few things, Sarah, before we sort of open it up for questions, I want to just make a few key points.
00:18:35:20 - 00:19:07:02
Will Sarni: You know what this comes down to really in the in the private sector and the public sector is that water is now impacting economic development and business growth, ecosystem health and social well-being. And once you start to bump into business disruption and not having enough water to grow your business, it really does sort of sharpen the mind, if you will.
00:19:07:05 - 00:19:37:09
Will Sarni: And I would say at large, you know, the corporate world is really coming to grips with that and really understanding that what is a business risk, but also a business opportunity, which I'll touch on just a little bit later in a few minutes. So the economic impact is really, really critical. Jacob talked about that. And it has to do with, you know, slow approvals and planning.
00:19:37:11 - 00:20:07:03
Will Sarni: It's impacting supply chain from a materials perspective in the built environment, but also other industry sectors, and then also construction and operation. So as you think about the role of water, how it's impacting business continuity and business growth, it's really across the entire value chain. And that's really, really important to keep in mind. I'm a firm believer that all of this drives innovation.
00:20:07:03 - 00:20:40:21
Will Sarni: So if you start putting constraints on businesses and communities, you will find that entrepreneurs rise to the occasion. Investors come in and it's really, really exciting. And I should have teed up my conversation by morning. Everyone. I'm an optimist. So all of this is a challenge. But we're really, really good in developing solutions and driving innovation in partnerships, business models, technology and financing.
00:20:40:23 - 00:21:15:13
Will Sarni: So it's an exciting time to be in the world of water and how it intersects in the built environment. So what we're seeing in the marketplace, and I'm quite sure the attendees here and the and Jacob see the same, the design emergence of innovation with respect to low water materials, you know, in the area of engineered timber and concrete, we're seeing digital, the digital transformation, basically the rise of digital technologies essentially what are intelligence.
00:21:15:13 - 00:21:53:13
Will Sarni: So and Jacob touched on this with the tool. Suddenly we have the ability to harness satellite data, remote sensing on the ground sensors to really understand what water risks we're facing, but more importantly, as a way to understand how to mitigate the risks. So a dollar invested where you can now quantify in the impact that you're having to get over that business disruption and curve to business growth.
00:21:53:15 - 00:22:42:11
Will Sarni: And the built environment. There's so much interest right now in decentralized and extreme decentralized systems. So neighborhood scale treatment systems. Organica is a really good example of that. Rainwater reuse in the built environment, both residential and commercial. An example is Hydro Loop. So you know, we're moving away from very, very centralized systems to really hybrid systems where centralized water utilities are really coming to embrace extreme decentralized home systems and also neighborhood scale decentralized systems and then alternative water sources.
00:22:42:13 - 00:23:29:20
Will Sarni: This is a big deal in my world right now. And we're seeing corporations, but also other stakeholder groups look at alternative sources, which includes air moisture capture for the home. Scaling that up to the neighborhood scale. And also looking at how do we take other sources of water like rainwater and stormwater and put it to beneficial use? So I'd say ever so slowly, but we're getting there, is that we are rethinking water resources, such as stormwater runoff, and viewing them as a a new source of water.
00:23:29:20 - 00:23:52:02
Will Sarni: So a lot of innovation in materials, the actual built environment, data acquisition and analytics and also water reuse and alternative sources of water. One thing I'll touch on just real quick.
00:23:52:05 - 00:24:31:20
Will Sarni: Is that there's this intersection of what's going on in the corporate world with technology. Microsoft is a really good example. So Microsoft has a replenish water strategy. They have committed to offsetting essentially their water footprint in the built environment for them, their operations. And they are working directly now with water technology companies and other corporations to invest in technologies that drive water efficiency and drive water reuse.
00:24:31:23 - 00:24:58:16
Will Sarni: And those savings are accrued accounted for in the Microsoft strategy. So, you know, as this community begins to think about, well, what can we do different with respect to building an ecosystem and partnership in addition to driving innovation and technology? There's a real appetite on the corporate side to start partnering in very, very different ways. And I find that really exciting and of course, optimistic.
00:24:58:17 - 00:25:02:28
Will Sarni: So Sarah, I'll leave it at that. And let's dive into questions.
00:25:03:05 - 00:25:23:01
Sara Gutterman: Wonderful. Well, Jacob and Will, thank you so much. My mind is exploding right now with all of the information that you just relayed, and I'm really excited to get into some questions. I do want to encourage attendees to put questions in the Q&A box in this session. Not the lobby chat, but the Q&A box, please. We'll get to those in a little while.
00:25:23:01 - 00:25:49:26
Sara Gutterman: We've got about a half an hour to cover questions. So, Jacob, I know we talked a lot about water, but I want to talk about power to the people, energy resilience and microgrids. And then we'll get back into water as we incorporate microgrids into residential communities. Jacob, what are the biggest barriers, technical, regulatory or financial to scaling these systems widely?
00:25:49:29 - 00:26:34:24
Jacob Atalla: Yeah, so microgrids are a tool to offer resilience for the home owners. Power that is there when there are blackouts. And in the particular area that we worked in with, with Doe on a microgrid, that area does have what's called power safety power shutoffs or public safety power shutoffs. Okay. And so having this kind of resilience and safety net for customers is important.
00:26:34:25 - 00:27:22:10
Jacob Atalla: Another layer is that when you combine that with solar generation and also local batteries in every house, you really giving them reliable power and at a lower cost. So it's important for these factors. It's important because then also the utility, the grid itself can start depending on these homes as resources for its stability. And that is the the reason why microgrids should be done in collaboration with utilities rather than, you know, set the utilities on the side and say, this is just an island on its own.
00:27:22:10 - 00:27:53:15
Jacob Atalla: In my opinion, it's the success of the KB Home Project pilot is because we partnered with Southern California Edison and working with them hand in hand, and they're using or they're looking at this community as an edge resource for them on their grid. So it ends up being not just good for the homeowner or the community, but the overall Southern California community as well.
00:27:53:15 - 00:27:57:18
Jacob Atalla: And what's important is that collaboration.
00:27:57:20 - 00:28:27:06
Sara Gutterman: Thanks, Jacob. Now, will you are recognized as an internationally esteemed water expert. And I'm just so pleased to have you here with us today. Let's talk about reinventing water innovation with respect to on site generation. On site water generation is still in its early stages, but what technologies are showing the most promise, and how close are we to making these decentralized water systems economically viable for homes and buildings?
00:28:27:06 - 00:28:38:04
Sara Gutterman: It feels like with microgrids, we, you know, are very close to having onsite power generation systems at scale and that are economically viable. So how far behind are these water solutions?
00:28:38:07 - 00:29:09:01
Will Sarni: Well, you know, I'd say innovation and water tech and adoption definitely lags behind energy. There's no question about that. There are lessons to be learned from how the energy sector has scaled at the residential and commercial and neighborhood scale. But yeah, so, you know, the technologies are there. You know, the pushback is, well, the water is more expensive.
00:29:09:03 - 00:29:42:22
Will Sarni: And well, that's true. But we have to do two things. And again, I keep coming back to Jacob's comments that we really have to quantify the co-benefits of moving to air moisture capture, small scale treatment. You know, centralized systems are costly from a CapEx perspective and an own perspective. So we need to stack those benefits. And then we also need to.
00:29:42:24 - 00:30:14:23
Will Sarni: Really understand that if you don't have water, then you can't build homes, commercial properties, whatever it may be. So what's the cost of not having access to water coupled to with Jacob's points about co-benefits, I find air moisture capture to be really a very, very interesting technology category. So you have companies like source that have done a very good job.
00:30:14:23 - 00:30:51:15
Will Sarni: It's off grid technology. So it don't plug it in. And you know, really elegant applications in the built environment, you know, small scale 2 to 3 panels, but also the ability to set up arrays essentially like solar arrays. And then there are a number of other air moisture capture technology companies that use different types of desiccant that have a a higher efficiency in terms of capturing water and then releasing it.
00:30:51:16 - 00:30:57:16
Will Sarni: So again, it's there. We just need to think differently about it.
00:30:57:18 - 00:31:10:11
Sara Gutterman: As a quick follow up question, though, what about developments in water recycling and desalinization technology and what's happening make those processes less energy intensive and more sustainable?
00:31:10:13 - 00:31:39:23
Will Sarni: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I would say in general, everyone gravitates toward desal, which means that you need a source of water to desalinate either at scale, which is typically, you know, ocean. But we also need to really consider brackish groundwater. And what's happening with respect to groundwater is that we're essentially mining it. So we're pumping it out faster than it can recharge.
00:31:39:23 - 00:32:09:04
Will Sarni: So, you know, it means that you just have to go deeper and deeper. There's a higher energy cost associated with pumping, and it's highly mineralized. So you need to desalinate that water. There are interesting technologies out there that are cost effective and small scale. There's a company by the name of desalination at of the Netherlands, and they have a solar desal tech.
00:32:09:04 - 00:32:40:28
Will Sarni: So again, weaving in solar that has obviously a very, very low carbon footprint. And as a power source it doesn't have a water footprint at all. And they can use their technology to desalinate at the neighborhood scale, but also scale it up for, you know, a food and beverage manufacturer and so on. So yeah, we're getting there and I'm glad you brought that up.
00:32:41:01 - 00:32:53:25
Will Sarni: You know, none of these technologies really sort of sit by themselves. So, you know, what are the bundles of technologies that you can bring to bear that would drive the cost down?
00:32:53:28 - 00:33:15:04
Sara Gutterman: Yeah. Thank you. So, Jacob, you have been talking about the energy water nexus for over a decade, probably more since I've met you, which was a long time ago. How can builders and developers design for the circular integration of power and water systems to optimize resource management?
00:33:15:07 - 00:33:54:03
Jacob Atalla: Yeah, the the time right now is is wonderful. And like, well, I'm also an optimist and think that we will even have more opportunities for that in the future. But I think it all starts with identifying the co-benefits early on, understanding technologies and results related to it. But today, with heat pump water heaters, we're really just accelerating beyond the speeds that we were at in earlier years since I've known you.
00:33:54:03 - 00:34:01:04
Jacob Atalla: But I think heat pump systems and then.
00:34:01:07 - 00:34:46:27
Jacob Atalla: In perhaps some additional technologies, I'm going to mention one technology. I've been very excited about it and I've used it. We've used it several times in some communities. It's a drain water heat recovery system. So here's a nexus story between water and energy. But on the way out on on the wastewater side of things. So from showers. So we collect water from all showers in the house, take them through one pipe that has two pipe, two path systems in a core path that takes that wastewater, that is hot showers.
00:34:46:29 - 00:35:30:23
Jacob Atalla: And around it separate is a loop of fresh water coming in that there is an air exchange between them, just like ERV for air conditioning. Here is an energy recovery system for wastewater. And again, when you understand you go through technologies, understand them, rate them, qualify them for viability in our developments, then it's easy to stack the co-benefits and find a path and economic path to to deliver them to a homeowner.
00:35:30:26 - 00:36:01:04
Jacob Atalla: In the case of the pipe, it's taken the new fresh water coming into the tank to to get heated, elevating its temperature a little bit. So we have to heat it a little bit less and save save energy in that regard while also from the showers saving water. So I think these are the kind of techniques we got to use, and there is still more to be done.
00:36:01:04 - 00:36:05:01
Jacob Atalla: So I'm hopeful for more technologies.
00:36:05:03 - 00:36:22:28
Sara Gutterman: Thanks, Jacob. Well, let's talk about codes, regulations, policies and incentives. What are you seeing out there that's accelerating adoption of next gen water and energy systems? And then what changes would you most like to see from regulators?
00:36:23:00 - 00:37:12:02
Will Sarni: That's a great question. So in certain parts of the world, public policy aligns with and supports water efficiency. And what are we use technologies. You know obviously here in the US it's an app. It's a huge market. But ultimately it's local. So we are beginning to see state regulations, city regulations changing, primarily because it gets down to how do we do more with less water, and a recognition that you start with water efficiency, and then you start to think about what are we use?
00:37:12:02 - 00:38:03:19
Will Sarni: So, you know, certainly California and I would say Arizona, Florida or, you know, really interesting states in terms of moving regulations to a place that promotes water reuse at the local level. And it's again driven by the economic realities of, you know, if you want to build because people want to be in your state, then you need to start being creative and really start to think beyond, you know, the status quo, the installed base, which is, you know, we treat water to primary drinking water standards, and then we send it to your home and you do whatever you want with it to a place where we need to start reusing water over and over again.
00:38:03:21 - 00:38:25:02
Will Sarni: You know, there's certainly technical limits on that, but you can definitely use water more than once before you throw it away. So I look to, you know, really local communities, some selected states that are leading on this issue to facilitate technology adoption.
00:38:25:05 - 00:38:33:20
Sara Gutterman: Right, will. And as we transition to a more climate resilient infrastructure, how can we avoid making mistakes of the past.
00:38:33:22 - 00:38:59:04
Will Sarni: While we're humanity, we're people. So we're going to keep making some of them, you know, that's a great point. I believe that one of the things we need to do, and this was supported in a report that came out a few weeks ago by Globe Scan and WWF. I'll send you the links there. We need to talk about these issues differently.
00:38:59:06 - 00:39:30:05
Will Sarni: You know, we can't have sort of geeky conversations in a silo. We have to use language that the layperson understands and make it very, very approachable. So I believe if we can do that, we'll get greater by in and adoption. And I would say even with respect to regulators understanding that the status quo really is not going to cut it anymore.
00:39:30:05 - 00:39:47:18
Will Sarni: So I believe that's how we get to a more sustainable and resilient place in the built environment, but really for every industry sector right now. So I guess if I had to use one word, I would say language.
00:39:47:20 - 00:40:02:07
Sara Gutterman: I think that is so true and astute in so many ways throughout the entire sustainability and different conversation. We have to shift it from being a problem and an obstacle to.
00:40:02:09 - 00:40:18:28
Sara Gutterman: Jacob. Along those lines, looking ahead, if we're going to create truly sustainable communities that limit resource use and carbon emissions, what are three ish must haves with respect to water power and waste?
00:40:19:00 - 00:40:56:17
Jacob Atalla: Before I go there, Sarah, if you would allow me, I just would like to highlight a particular location, Tucson, for a minute and talk about how the EPA studies that were done and highlighted them really influenced things in terms of how jurisdictions and water districts are addressing the water situation. Think about Phoenix. We have in Phoenix now in some locations requirement.
00:40:56:18 - 00:41:28:23
Jacob Atalla: If you want permits, you must build water sense labeled homes. So it's that must build with water sense approach. In Tucson they looked at the study that said you know the homes save 55, 54, 55% water compared to a home that doesn't have water sense and said that's water that remains in our aquifer. And what's the value of that water in the aquifer?
00:41:28:26 - 00:41:54:00
Jacob Atalla: How much less energy are we using to just keep it there rather than pump it and treat it and move it and all that kind of stuff. And they came to a decision that they want to incentivize builders rather than you must. It's incentivize builders to build water sense labeled homes and gave an incentive of $1,000 per home.
00:41:54:00 - 00:42:25:14
Jacob Atalla: If it's a water sense labeled home, that's again the value of the water that remained in their aquifer and all the avoided costs. So I think that's important there for for consideration as how we how should we as a society deal with this matter? Of course, builders always respond better to incentives. But but I think we also respond very well to technology.
00:42:25:14 - 00:43:00:07
Jacob Atalla: So going forward, look, resilience is very important. We're all talking about adaptation and resilience. And with water and energy together you do a lot of that. You're creating homes that are resilient to droughts, front lines that are not all grass. And then all of a sudden during water restrictions, they become brown and the whole curb appeal of the neighborhood goes out the window.
00:43:00:10 - 00:43:37:07
Jacob Atalla: Resilience for the community itself, for the economics of the community are involved as well here. But then on energy resilience with the blackouts, grid instabilities, again, I will say are important and the the latest resilience that KB home recently piloted. And again, we do these pilots to learn from them so that we would know what to do in the future is resilience against wildfires.
00:43:37:07 - 00:44:22:04
Jacob Atalla: So we have the first in the nation wildfire prepared neighborhood in Escondido, southern southern California. We did that with the Insurance Institute for Business and Home Safety. We did it to learn because that community was in a high fire zone. The California fire maps continue to expand in some counties, about 120% more land has been designated as high high fire zone compared to just what they were in 2007, 120% more.
00:44:22:05 - 00:44:30:17
Jacob Atalla: So we have to adapt to all these things, and I believe that.
00:44:30:19 - 00:44:36:20
Jacob Atalla: Water and energy will continue to be very important for all builders.
00:44:36:22 - 00:45:01:22
Sara Gutterman: Thanks, Jacob. We'll take a picture of a home or a community that really optimizes the energy water nexus in a decade from now. And one of the questions that was in the Q&A, I'm going to tie this in. Someone is particularly asking about pool solutions, particularly in water parched areas. So maybe leave that into to your.
00:45:01:24 - 00:45:32:04
Will Sarni: I love pools. Okay, I'll preface this by saying, you know, for the most part we have dumb water homes right now. We have more smart water homes. So how do we get to a place where the home is digitally connected? So the homeowner, the community, you know, the water utility absolutely understands on a real time basis how much water is being used, can identify a leak.
00:45:32:08 - 00:46:00:08
Will Sarni: And also giving the homeowner and also the utility the ability to understand the quality of the water coming out of the tap. Because historically well, and I believe we're still there for the most part, the resident, the consumer does not know on a real time basis the quality of the water until they maybe get a boil advisory or something like that.
00:46:00:08 - 00:46:38:21
Will Sarni: So digital transformation absolutely critical. I see a community in the next ten years getting water from a utility, maybe, you know, a centralized utility that is not of drinking water quality, but it is treated to some quality that can be used for just general purposes, like flushing your toilet. Or if you have a lawn doing that. And in the home, you would have a treatment system that would treat it to drinking water standards.
00:46:38:21 - 00:47:09:06
Will Sarni: So you don't have to treat water to drinking water standards and flush toilets with it. You need water of the appropriate quality, and then can have a localized system that would treat to very specific needs. Certainly. What are we use in the home? Gray water reuse is the first step in that. So think about extreme decentralized technologies that are treating gray water for other uses.
00:47:09:08 - 00:47:36:14
Will Sarni: And then, you know, at the neighborhood scale or even at the individual home scale alternative sources. And again, you know, you're going to keep I'll keep going back to air moisture capture as a technology category, where you would get a percentage of your water, let's say drink, just drinking water from air. That'll be enough for your home, you know.
00:47:36:16 - 00:47:45:28
Will Sarni: And then there's all sorts of things that you could do at the neighborhood scale to, you know, essentially create.
00:47:46:00 - 00:48:07:27
Will Sarni: Water treatment systems that are not centralized. And I keep coming back to Organica because it's very cool. They use constructed wetlands and greenhouses to treat water the way nature does it. So anyway, for me, I would move into a community like that with respect to pools, you know.
00:48:07:29 - 00:48:14:13
Will Sarni: You know, I'm not sure that I have a really good answer, but I'm happy to follow up on that one.
00:48:14:16 - 00:48:34:25
Will Sarni: Pools are important. What is important? So I think it might just come down to, you know, how do you take water and reuse it, treat it. And, you know, also rainwater capture. That's really and for the most part an untapped resource. And also stormwater runoff at the neighborhood scale.
00:48:34:27 - 00:48:39:26
Sara Gutterman: Thanks. Well, Jacob, do you want to weigh in on the.
00:48:39:28 - 00:48:49:08
Sara Gutterman: The home or community that optimizes the energy water nexus in a decade from now, as well as the pool related question.
00:48:49:10 - 00:49:21:26
Jacob Atalla: Yeah, I think the digital transformation that will highlighted is, is very important from monitoring the water quality to also just giving awareness for the homeowner or household. What is what's their consumption, how how they can solve for some of these efficiency issues. But I think that.
00:49:21:28 - 00:49:48:00
Jacob Atalla: The community of the future is already here. Now, I think we have the tools to create that enhance that nexus between energy and water. With the heat pump systems continue, we need to continue to lean in heat pump systems. Recently we supported and.
00:49:48:02 - 00:50:14:15
Jacob Atalla: Tested a new technology that uses one heat pump engine for both the air conditioning as well as the water heater. So that's these are some of the things where he heat pump technology will continue to improve going forward. But I think that we're we're here and we just need to continue to take it forward with the digital transformation.
00:50:14:15 - 00:50:18:19
Jacob Atalla: As as we'll talk about.
00:50:18:22 - 00:50:50:21
Sara Gutterman: Just a couple final questions before we wrap things up, Jacob, how do we make sure that cutting edge energy and water solutions don't just end up in luxury loans, but actually serve the homeowners and communities that need them most? And this ties into a question also that was in the Q&A about especially low income communities in areas that actually have too much water, where they're seeing a lot of challenges with respect to stormwater management and capturing water.
00:50:50:22 - 00:51:01:05
Sara Gutterman: So how do we ensure that these solutions are, will say, democratize over all price points and stress of homes?
00:51:01:07 - 00:51:43:22
Jacob Atalla: The cost of water conservation is the lowest when it is at new construction. It is. We just can do the simplest of things to get a lot of impact on water conservation, energy efficiency and also carbon reductions. So that's the lowest cost. And that's where builders and developers need to start. And when it is done, as we talked earlier, when you stack the co-benefits, you really start to understand the value of it.
00:51:43:22 - 00:52:13:10
Jacob Atalla: And so if we're all talking about return on investment, if there is a little bit a small investment upfront, but it's giving the homeowners value for many, many years the total cost of ownership reduction, that's where cost should be, how it should be looked at. We may have an upfront small amount to add, but then the value continues and the benefits for the homeowners continue.
00:52:13:10 - 00:52:42:01
Jacob Atalla: So it's not, as you said in your opening remarks, it's not about the initial price point of the home. It's about the total cost of ownership. But the initial price of the home is still very important. We want to expand affordability and the base of households that can afford to move into new homes. So it's all about just that collaboration and starting to work with the companies.
00:52:42:01 - 00:53:09:17
Jacob Atalla: That Will is highlighting so that we can do help them in streamlining how their product and process can work within a new home construction, therefore lowering the total that cost cost at the beginning. And then we can cost from that point on, the customer can cost with a lot more lower water and energy bills. I'll stop here.
00:53:09:19 - 00:53:35:04
Sara Gutterman: Thanks, David. So my final question to both of you. We've talked a lot about technologies. We've talked a lot about designing practices and construction approaches. Will and Jacob, just to wrap up in the next four minutes. What are your kind of final closing comments? And do you have any tips, tricks and hacks that you'd like to share with these in terms of changing mindsets?
00:53:35:05 - 00:53:47:11
Sara Gutterman: I know you talked about language. What else do you want to say? In closing, just about how we can continue to innovate with respect to water and power challenges.
00:53:47:13 - 00:53:59:10
Will Sarni: You know, one other point I would make or will make is that we are sort of locked into a mindset about.
00:53:59:13 - 00:54:55:13
Will Sarni: How we pay for technology, innovation and adoption. And I believe the biggest, most exciting opportunity in the world of water right now is innovation and partnerships. And I had about, you know, who solves wicked water problems, climate problems. Fill in the blank. We need to think more creatively about who we bring into this conversation. And how do we create value for but not just the builder, not just the community or the homeowner, but the technology providers, the role of the multinational corporations and ensuring that their workforce and their customers, consumers have affordable housing that is, you know, sustainable and resilient.
00:54:55:13 - 00:55:01:14
Will Sarni: So let's start with a broader palette.
00:55:01:17 - 00:55:04:20
Sara Gutterman: Thank you. Bill and Jacob in 60s or less.
00:55:04:23 - 00:55:26:17
Jacob Atalla: Yeah, I'll go back to the total cost of ownership. So language how do we speak with the customer. One of the languages is just the numbers. Show them the savings. Show them the total cost of ownership savings and bring them on board. At least start. That's that's the start starting point for the conversation.