Earth Finance co-founder and former Washington State senator Reuven Carlyle explains how the state's Climate Commitment Act and cap-and-invest carbon market work, and why Pacific Coast regional policy alignment is key to hitting 2030 emissions targets.
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Mike Collignon: Our next guest is a climate entrepreneur and former Washington State senator. Rubin is a co-founder of Earth Finance, where he focuses on the complex intersection between the public and private sectors. He has a business and policy background in sustainability, climate change, energy and utilities, water quality and accessibility, education, transportation, health care, data privacy and cybersecurity, environmental justice, and global development.
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Mike Collignon: Now, as a Washington State legislature from 2009 to 2023, he was the author and sponsor of what is widely viewed as the most comprehensive state level climate policy in the nation. Working with Governor Jay Inslee, Rubin is the architect of the Climate Commitment Act, which is the nation's second cap and invest carbon pricing legislation. He also crafted the climate sorry, the Clean Energy Transformation Act, requiring utilities to transition to 100% clean energy.
00:01:06:01 - 00:01:37:10
Mike Collignon: And he also managed passage of the Clean Fuel Standard, hydrofluorocarbons standards, building efficiency standards and other sweeping policies to reach Paris Agreement level emission reduction targets. Now, in addition, in addition to his public service, Rubin is a seasoned entrepreneur in the mobile software and clean energy sectors. Now, he's here to talk to us today about how regional policy alignment is helping the Pacific Coast region advance the corporate and government journey to a 1.5°C future.
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Mike Collignon: Reuben Carlisle, welcome to the program, sir.
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Reuven Carlyle: Thank you, Mike, and thank you, everyone, for the opportunity to be with you a little bit today. I know that we have just an engaged and passionate and alive and a vibrant audience of folks who care deeply about these issues. I appreciate the opportunity to be with you. I also have a deep appreciation and recognition for the voices that have expressed frustration, anxiety, pessimism, but also hope and aspiration about the times that we live in.
00:02:10:22 - 00:02:36:25
Reuven Carlyle: My hope today is to inspire you to believe that there is something powerful in a meaningful alignment between the public and the private sector. I had the great honor of serving for 14 years, until two months ago in the Washington State Legislature, where I was chair of the State Senate environment, Energy and Technology Committee, and I was the architect of our Cap and Invest program and many other efforts.
00:02:36:26 - 00:03:03:04
Reuven Carlyle: My heart and my soul is in climate action, and I hope to inspire you today to understand that progress is possible, that subnational leadership is the foundation of action, and that there is an opportunity for global thought leadership. When we take the best of the public sector and the best of the private sector together. Next slide please.
00:03:03:06 - 00:03:31:00
Reuven Carlyle: So I'd like to talk a little bit about Washington State and our journey, because I think it's a symbolic representation of the power and the possibility of evidence based global best practices. When we talk today about decarbonization of the toughest sectors maritime, aviation, long haul trucking, energy storage, building efficiency standards, methane capture, all of these sectors are opportunities for economic transformation.
00:03:31:02 - 00:03:56:02
Reuven Carlyle: They're opportunities for environmental justice and equity, opportunities for clean jobs, for a high paying, quality jobs. And there are also opportunities for the transformation, not just in terms of climate benefit and quality of life benefit, but also in terms of transforming our economy itself to be more in tune with walking more gently upon the earth. Next slide please.
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Reuven Carlyle: So a little bit of history. I think we can all appreciate that. The complex nuance between the public sector and the private sector has been stressful relative to climate action. As Cheyenne and others said that there was this growing anxiety about what the obligation of corporate environments would be, corporate entities would be. So the public sector has been a forcing function.
00:04:20:05 - 00:04:49:09
Reuven Carlyle: But I want to talk to you today about the in many ways, the fundamental misalignment between the federal government and state and local governments. We know that the Inflation Reduction Act is transformational, and it's a tax incentive. It's an incentive carrot model. It's fabulous. And it's going to explode the investment in renewable energy and many other sectors. But ultimately, in many ways it's the action on the front lines.
00:04:49:09 - 00:05:35:03
Reuven Carlyle: It's the action in California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Quebec. It's the action of subnational leadership of states in Germany, in smaller countries like Norway and Israel and many others around the world. It's subnational leadership in many ways that has been foundational. So in our state in the last two years, we passed a sweeping comprehensive suite, a grand bargain politically, that set a policy foundation of captain and invest carbon pricing the strongest in the nation and really, the world that Environmental Defense Fund calls the gold standard environmental justice and equity legislation that is deep and authentic in its substance was transformational in getting the agreement.
00:05:35:03 - 00:06:01:28
Reuven Carlyle: And that meant the support of our sovereign nation, our tribal partners, 29 federally recognized tribes in our state, and also a $17 billion green transportation package that invested in all kinds of high value impacts. So that package of legislation is the marquee essence that took years to build. And we know that California's cap and trade program brings a lot of lessons learned.
00:06:01:28 - 00:06:48:10
Reuven Carlyle: We'll talk about that today. But that's been foundational. And our good friends in Oregon who've made progress as well. Next slide please. So what does it mean to have a formal commitment to Paris Agreement for a state government? We are incredibly proud that in Washington state we have a formal binding commitment to net zero to to. What it means in practical reality is that we emit about 102 million metric tons of emissions per year, and by 2050, our state has to emit 5 million metric tons while growing our population, growing our quality of life, growing our environmental justice, and growing our jobs and our clean economy.
00:06:48:10 - 00:07:13:01
Reuven Carlyle: So how do we do that? What does that look like? It means deep decarbonization in all of the very challenging sectors. But Washington state is unique in that we're the home of Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks, Boeing, Packer, Costco, Nordstrom, Alaska Airlines, and so many other premier companies. And so we have that spirit of innovation, the mobile and the software industry and so many others.
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Reuven Carlyle: But we also have a deep understanding through Breakthrough Energy and the Gates Foundation, many others of the linkage with innovation and technology, but also with public health and other CRE critical elements. So we've got the public sector leadership, we've got the access to capital. We've got the public sector partnership. Next slide please. So our breakdown of our emissions this is a little bit old, but our breakdown of emissions is very similar to other states.
00:07:41:10 - 00:08:07:10
Reuven Carlyle: Of course transportation at just under half about 45% of our overall footprint and buildings, which are such a critical piece of at about 23.5%, are electricity at about 16%. And all of the other factors such as super pollutants, hydrofluorocarbons and others make up the additional 15%. So each sector has to do its proportional part to ensure that we reach net zero by 2050.
00:08:07:15 - 00:08:34:25
Reuven Carlyle: Next, please. So I have a deep passion for evidence based global best practices that comes from my private sector work and my work as chair of the Senate committee. And we look deeply at the Pacific Coast Collaborative. What is the uniqueness of British Columbia, Washington, Oregon and California? And in what we did is we embraced the vision of the categorical opposite of not invented here.
00:08:34:25 - 00:08:57:28
Reuven Carlyle: Whenever there was a good idea, we took it. We built on it. We tried to look at those best practices. One of those best practices, of course, is the low carbon fuel standard, which is unleashing the marketplace of innovation around capturing methane and translating it into renewable natural gas. So it gets into the entire conversation about the future of natural gas in our buildings.
00:08:57:28 - 00:09:25:08
Reuven Carlyle: But it also touches on electrification and having a deeply integrated system. It touches on our public power systems, where we have a hydro based, but we also have wind and solar, and we have a unique opportunity with offshore wind. So a passionate commitment to evidence based global best practices. Some of the best legislation that we got comes from the Nordic countries, Germany and Israel, and so many other great places in the world.
00:09:25:09 - 00:09:54:18
Reuven Carlyle: Next, please. So for us, 2030 is an incredibly serious real deal date. I know that this those who struggle with a belief that we can achieve this know that 2030 is absolutely critical. We have to achieve 50% of our mission reductions by 2030, in order to hit the 95% reduction by 2050. So in our state, here's the public policy breakdown.
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Reuven Carlyle: The red slide on the left that shows, in effect, the 50% or the 50 million metric tons that would remain. But the policy framework exists in all of the other sectors to effectively be able to decarbonize. The largest is the Climate Commitment Act, the Cap on invest, which would account for about 26 million metric tons of the 50 million metric tons.
00:10:17:13 - 00:10:44:10
Reuven Carlyle: The 100% clean energy bill, which is decarbonizing our electricity sector, also accounts for about 12 million metric tons. Both of those bills were my legislation. Of course, the the other legislation around super pollutants and carbon reduction are critical elements of the whole package. But you can see that the essence of the electricity sector and of the carbon pricing are critical elements of success to 2030.
00:10:44:11 - 00:11:09:26
Reuven Carlyle: We've put these in statute. So to those who don't believe that change is possible, who don't believe we're seeing progress, who don't believe that politicians will take a stand on the weather, I encourage you to look at the Pacific coast and see that deep alignment of the major economic and market sectors that we're working hard to decarbonize, and we're finding ways to leverage the Inflation Reduction Act and other benefits.
00:11:09:27 - 00:11:35:19
Reuven Carlyle: Next, please. So for us, the key outcomes of this work has been driven by Cap and invest, by the clean fuel standard, by the concept of environmental justice and equity, and also by linking in high value investments in our transportation system that are paid for by capturing the negative externalities of fossil fuels in our in our transportation sector.
00:11:35:21 - 00:11:56:01
Reuven Carlyle: I want to talk very briefly about the concept of how we broke the law jam politically. We broke it because we listen deeply to the environmental justice and equity communities, and we put in lessons learned from our good friends in California and California, had the luxury of, well, they went ten years ago in creating their cap and trade program.
00:11:56:01 - 00:12:21:01
Reuven Carlyle: We had the absolute categorical luxury of going second. What does that mean? That we means we had the humility to listen and to learn deeply. And we found that we can make improvements in the areas of environmental justice. That means things like offset quality, but also understanding that criteria, pollutants and other actual reality on the ground of communities matter.
00:12:21:01 - 00:12:46:21
Reuven Carlyle: So if you have industrial zoning near communities of color and low income, we have to be real about what's happening in those communities. And that's the authority we've given to our state agencies to tackle. Next, please. So transportation infrastructure is, of course, a symbolic representation as well. We know the federal investment. We are doubling down on medium and light duty trucks.
00:12:46:21 - 00:13:14:21
Reuven Carlyle: We are tackling the trade sector. We are tracking tackling our ports. We have a very large port of Seattle. We're a day closer to Asia than San Francisco by ship. And the most lucrative maritime market in the world is Asia to the West coast of the United States. So we're working hard to build out that infrastructure. I would say that one thing we didn't do, which is counterintuitive, is we didn't dump extra money into lowering the price of electric vehicles.
00:13:14:21 - 00:13:39:07
Reuven Carlyle: We did something different. We chose to fundamentally tackle the issue of range anxiety. We said, let's be the number one state in the nation, and let's partner with our good friends in the Pacific coast to integrate, to tackle the issue of range anxiety so that accessible quality charging is available in multi-unit housing and other public and private facilities throughout our state.
00:13:39:07 - 00:13:46:26
Reuven Carlyle: And that's where we're putting a lot of our transportation dollars, as well as many others. Next, please.
00:13:46:29 - 00:14:13:15
Reuven Carlyle: So our clean fuel standard is slightly weaker from an environmental point of view than the region. And that was for political considerations and some of the compromises we did have to make. But we're already seeing explosion of opportunities. So if you look at every dairy farm in California, every landfill in Washington, there's an opportunity for methane capture. And I think that's one of the most exciting opportunities under the low carbon fuel standard.
00:14:13:15 - 00:14:45:05
Reuven Carlyle: We need to make sure that the pricing issues they're having in California, which means high, low carbon fuel credit prices, doesn't distract from electrification, which is such a critical piece for us. So there are concerns on that front. Next, please, the building sector, we all know that at 27 plus percent of our emissions, it's absolutely central. We do have a policy framework that has established a reduction strategy for new construction.
00:14:45:08 - 00:15:10:09
Reuven Carlyle: The Building Code Council has voted to ensure that new construction does not include natural gas. We do have a peaker problem like any state, meaning that making sure that we've got reliability and cost protections. But ultimately we're updating our energy rules for large buildings and we're looking at smaller buildings. We're down now to requiring energy efficiency for buildings as small as 25,000ft².
00:15:10:09 - 00:15:36:06
Reuven Carlyle: So we've made extraordinary progress in this area. Next, please. So super pollutants we talked about methane capture. But you know hydrofluorocarbons are an incredible win. We all know that giant refrigerators leak like a sieve. California has been a leader on this. Our state has adopted many of those same standards, which of course is now a global standard and recognized from Kyoto on.
00:15:36:06 - 00:16:01:09
Reuven Carlyle: So ultimately, I think that that's an area where folks in more conservative oriented states can pass very meaningful legislation because it's good for the environment, it's good for industry, it's good for the community health, and it's good for the economics. It's a win win win. So there's a lot of support in that area. And it it's it's a very positive action because it takes extraordinary amounts of super gluten out of the air.
00:16:01:10 - 00:16:34:18
Reuven Carlyle: Thank you. Next please. So for us the issue of environmental justice has been central. We have, as I mentioned, sovereign nations of our tribal partners who carry deep moral authority within our political environment. And when I was working with them as chair, I worked extensively to really understand the issues around carbon capture opportunities, around nature based solutions. Many of our tribes along the Pacific coast have kelp beds, which are fabulous from a scientific point of view in terms of sequestration.
00:16:34:20 - 00:17:02:24
Reuven Carlyle: And I just am a deep believer in the opportunities associated with that. We did have, of course, extraordinary controversy around this issue from the history in California. But one of the most dramatic moments politically is when we I simply stood up in the Senate before my colleagues and I listed out the issues, the challenges around environmental justice, of not providing agencies with rulemaking authority to deal with criteria pollutants.
00:17:02:26 - 00:17:25:04
Reuven Carlyle: If you have 20 a dry cleaners that have leaked over 30 years in a low income neighborhood, we need to deal with that issue as well in terms of quality of water and quality of criteria, pollutants as well as emissions from a factory nearby. So being real and showing up with authenticity on the science of that made a fundamental difference.
00:17:25:07 - 00:17:51:07
Reuven Carlyle: Next, please. So the Climate Commitment Act, as you can imagine, a bit proud of this. We recently had our first auctions. It is a comprehensive, economy wide cap and invest program that provides a firm cap on emissions and reduces that cap between now and 2050. The political victory is that no one got carved out. No industry has a complete free ride.
00:17:51:08 - 00:18:15:11
Reuven Carlyle: No one doesn't have to contribute their proportional part. It is designed from the beginning to link ultimately with our good friends in Quebec and California. That doesn't mean it's automatic, but it does not have to be authorized by the state legislature or by the governor. It is an authority that exists within the state Department of Commerce as they go through that evaluation.
00:18:15:15 - 00:18:43:13
Reuven Carlyle: Our schedule for our auctions is very similar to the Western Climate Initiative. I will tell you that the revenues raised from this are then plowed back into additional decarbonization in very friendly ways. And example that I'm very proud of is that at this point today, that all young people 18 and younger are able to ride all transit in Washington state free of charge with absolutely no tickets.
00:18:43:13 - 00:19:06:24
Reuven Carlyle: So that means our largest ferry system in the world. We have our bus system, we have our train, and everything else is completely free to young people. That's a use of proceeds from the Cap and Invest program. We are currently at about $48.50 per metric ton. California is at $27. So it shows you the profound difference in the strength of our cap.
00:19:06:24 - 00:19:17:01
Reuven Carlyle: But our good friends at Carb in California helped us write the building. We got to learn deeply from that experience. Next, please.
00:19:17:03 - 00:19:47:07
Reuven Carlyle: So our first auctions did raise a substantial amount of money. There was only 6 million allowances that were auctioned off. The compliance obligations are important. So we have Boeing, Kaiser, Alcoa, aluminum smelters, you know, all kinds of manufacturing. We have about 109 facilities that emit more than 25,000 metric tons per year. And they're under obligation under the compliance market to participate in the auctions.
00:19:47:07 - 00:20:24:14
Reuven Carlyle: The futures market is aggressively purchasing these allowances. We have very small, very modest offset ability. So overwhelming majority has to be direct emission reduction about 92%. Next please excuse me. So some of the insights I know that we live in a time of skepticism I appreciate it. I feel it sometimes at the at the local supermarket when folks recognize me or talk about what's going on, I want to share that there is a multiplier of value that is historic.
00:20:24:17 - 00:20:51:02
Reuven Carlyle: The number one provision of the Inflation Reduction Act, the number one secret sauce of the entire thing. We all know the truth. And that is there's no cap. It could be trillions of dollars. We have 27 years to reach 2050. We're on the march of an economic transformation. That's radical, that's dramatic, and that's real. We can leverage state and federal incentives.
00:20:51:03 - 00:21:26:22
Reuven Carlyle: What's the number one renewable energy state in the country? We know it. It's Texas. And it just truthfully doesn't matter when a rhetorical politician pounds the table against ESG or against climate action, we know the marketplace has already embraced it. Young people have already embraced it. There are states that are moving forward. Doesn't matter that the state legislature in Texas and the governor stand up and make a speech against climate action because the public, the markets and the the innovation is already happening there, already delivering renewable energy.
00:21:26:27 - 00:21:54:01
Reuven Carlyle: The other thing we've done hard is we've listened deeply to the silence as well as the noise. We separate the rhetorical narratives of those who pretend like they can score points and listen to the marketplace of innovation. Look at the billions of dollars in capital going into renewable energy, going into offshore wind, going into fusion, going into renewable hydrogen for the maritime sector.
00:21:54:01 - 00:22:18:25
Reuven Carlyle: I want to make the case that nature based solutions and carbon removal are exploding in possibilities. There's innovation happening, but there's deep investments happening in high value solutions. And that's where our friends in the tribal community and low income communities can show up with grace and intentionality and have a point of view about how it affects them and real people living real lives.
00:22:18:28 - 00:22:54:22
Reuven Carlyle: The Pacific Coast, British Columbia, Washington, Oregon, and California is a region not just because California is the fourth largest economy in the world, but we're showing a pathway. We've got political dynamics. There's only a three vote majority in the Washington State Senate, but we passed this legislation 25 to 24. We got it done. And the fact is that alternative fuels, super pollutants, the regenerative agriculture, forest management practices for wildfire reduction, all of these real deal policies are possible.
00:22:54:22 - 00:23:22:07
Reuven Carlyle: And it isn't just in a state that has a two thirds supermajority for one party. It is about making it real for real people. And that's the economic opportunity. When we see this 27 year journey as an opportunity and not just a cost, and we allow ourselves to breathe deeply into the hope and the aspiration and the optimism of the possibility of this transformation, then I think we find kindred spirits.
00:23:22:09 - 00:23:50:01
Reuven Carlyle: We have 27 years to 2050. I reject the pessimism that it's too hard, that it's too expensive. Yes, there are challenges. The marketplace is moving. Policies are moving global best practices. We know what we need to do. We know the 8020 rule. We know the deep decarbonization within critical sectors as possible. Think about the spirit of innovation that exists at this conference relative to buildings alone.
00:23:50:01 - 00:24:10:20
Reuven Carlyle: Materials. Circularity. Geothermal. You can go to Copenhagen and see circularity within building design, around heating and cooling. That completely eliminates the kind of super pollutants that we see. It's possible and we know the pathway. Next slide please.
00:24:10:22 - 00:24:41:02
Reuven Carlyle: I had the great honor of presenting in Glasgow to talk seriously about what subnational leadership looks like on behalf of the National Caucus of Environmental Legislators. It was a profound experience, and I aligned with with thought leaders from around the world. And I learned a lot from that. And I would share with you now that the deep decarbonization opportunities that exist for transformation are an economic win.
00:24:41:03 - 00:25:19:25
Reuven Carlyle: There are social wind, of course there a win for climate. I reject the idea that we have to retreat into a place of fear. Yes, it's hard work and yes, it's difficult. I'm not in any way critical of those who've lost a sense of the possible, but I believe if you focus on subnational leadership, siting of facilities, environmental justice, use of proceeds that are smart, and leveraging state and federal opportunities together in partnership with the private sector, that is where the forcing function of change is possible.
00:25:19:27 - 00:25:23:03
Reuven Carlyle: Next slide please.
00:25:23:05 - 00:25:44:23
Reuven Carlyle: I founded my company after two months, a couple months ago after I left the legislature. I just believe deeply it's the most profound market opportunity in history, and I think we're living in a time where people are hungry for authenticity and for people to show up. So thank you so much. It's a great honor to be with you today.
00:25:44:25 - 00:25:47:01
Sara Gutterman: Thank you. Thank you.
00:25:47:03 - 00:25:55:01
Mike Collignon: Yep. No. Go ahead. I was just going to say that I wanted to take a moment to ask you a few questions. And so, Sarah, go right ahead.
00:25:55:03 - 00:26:14:16
Sara Gutterman: Sorry, Mike. I'm jumping right in. Ruben, first of all, thank you so much. Your presentation was everything that we had hoped it to be. When we reach out to you. You are motivating and inspiring. I am going to go out and March this afternoon. Good. And yeah, I love the fact.
00:26:14:16 - 00:26:17:22
Sara Gutterman: That you. Have you.
00:26:17:24 - 00:26:38:26
Sara Gutterman: Have a blend of actual results and a clear business case for sustainable solutions moving forward. My husband and I lived in Washington state in the San Juan Islands about eight years. We loved it. We are both Colorado people, so we're back here in the mountains now. We're in the least populated county in the lower 48 on purpose in the San Juan Mountains.
00:26:39:00 - 00:27:07:00
Sara Gutterman: But that's neither here nor there. All I wanted to say is that we loved living in your state, and we didn't vote for you because we have been voters in Colorado the whole time through. But again, like with Cheyenne, we certainly would have. So a couple of questions for you. First of all, you have such a clear business case for sustainability at state government level as well as the business case.
00:27:07:06 - 00:27:32:21
Sara Gutterman: How do we really export that to other states and on a national level? I totally agree that we have to, but what are some of the messages? What are some of those business case elements that are working that people are actually listening to? And how do we do this in a time frame that keeps us under that 1.5 degree threshold?
00:27:32:23 - 00:28:11:21
Reuven Carlyle: That really goes to the core of systems change. And how do we how do we scale? I guess I feel like there's some, some deep learning that takes a lot of humility for us all, and that is to not be consumed by the rhetorical narrative. So, for example, politically, I got the the strongest climate bill in US history at the state level, passed with a coalition between British Petroleum and Black Lives Matter alliance.
00:28:11:23 - 00:28:38:03
Reuven Carlyle: And I don't say that lightly. And what broke it loose in part, was our tribal partners who spoke up and said, we believe in nature based solutions. We believe in investing in our communities. The coalition we put together and Microsoft got on board and many other companies as the home of Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, Boeing, Packer, Costco and many other companies.
00:28:38:06 - 00:29:09:12
Reuven Carlyle: We have a private sector that often leans in to big systems challenges. So I think as we think about scale, it's important for it not to just be seen as a tactical political challenge. It is a systems issue, and you need coalitions and you need alignment within those coalitions. And I think that ultimately finding companies that have global reach has an impact.
00:29:09:14 - 00:29:42:09
Reuven Carlyle: We know that our friends in the EU, in Europe are moving forward very aggressively with a carbon pricing scheme, as well as other regulatory requirements on circularity and plastics reduction and water quality, many other areas. We have to embrace those best practices. The arrogance of Americans often about not invented here is so destructive. There's nothing like going to Nordic countries and other places around the world to learn deeply around those best practices.
00:29:42:10 - 00:30:05:16
Reuven Carlyle: I was part of the Aspen Institute of Germany a few years ago, where I made relationships with the equivalent state level leaders throughout Germany, not just the Greens and others, but the full spectrum. And it was just fabulous. And I think those relationships. I passed a bill to provide a tax incentive for solar canopies over commercial parking lot.
00:30:05:17 - 00:30:24:04
Reuven Carlyle: So Walmart and Home Depot and Costco, their five acre parking lots that could put solar canopies over it. And this is, of course, Washington State. Well, my good friend, my gracious buddy, Senator Josh Becker in California, called me up and he said, hey, Ruben, I'm going to introduce your bill in California, but I'm going to make it mandatory.
00:30:24:05 - 00:30:47:00
Reuven Carlyle: Anyway, it's got a big commercial parking lot. So we share information, and to have the humility to learn from each other is incredibly important. Bring those best practices, have the courage to stop complaining and make the business case, the economic case, the financial case, and the equity in the climate case for sustainability.
00:30:47:03 - 00:31:13:13
Sara Gutterman: Yes, I couldn't agree with you more that it's refreshing to work with people, whether those are elected officials or business leaders from other countries where this really isn't a debate anymore. Which leads me to my next question, which is here in the US, as you well know, sustainability has been politicized, strangely, for a long time right now. And I mentioned this.
00:31:13:13 - 00:31:38:03
Sara Gutterman: I actually asked the same question yesterday to Senator Martin Heinrich. ESG is kind of in the hot seat right now. How do you think that we work through this odd political blowback and, you know, really garner bipartisan support for everything that you are talking about so that it isn't a debate anymore.
00:31:38:05 - 00:32:04:22
Reuven Carlyle: To, I guess, two things. I mean, that's it's a challenge. There's no question I'm not minimizing that challenge. But candidly, we know that the economics of rural America is a deep challenge, and we know that it's a real issue. There's a population flight, there's an economic, there's an infrastructure, and there's disproportionate issues politically where they have, you know, disproportionate power in our federalist system.
00:32:04:22 - 00:32:40:21
Reuven Carlyle: So we know there's real issues there. I think that every minute that we are talking about whether climate is real is a categorical waste of time and is intellectually uninteresting. That's just my point of view. I would rather focus on the economic win of methane capture that provides more revenue to someone who's got 6000 dairy farms in Iowa to be able to use the credits from that for renewable natural gas, and to be able to bring that to market that has a carbon intensity, a fraction of traditional natural gas.
00:32:40:23 - 00:33:19:08
Reuven Carlyle: Or I would rather spend the time on the economic value, the community value of a manufacturing facility that is building the biochemical solutions that take fossil fuels out of products like apparel. I think that's the economic opportunity. That's what the Inflation Reduction Act enables. And let's not kid ourselves for a New York minute. The Department of Commerce in Iowa or Missouri, any of these other states, red states, they're working just as hard to attract manufacturing facilities as anyone else in a blue state.
00:33:19:08 - 00:33:41:29
Reuven Carlyle: So I think not being taken in by the shallow political rhetorical narrative from a handful of politicians who normally won't take a stand on the weather is is just not worth the time. Let's focus in on value. Focus in on real communities. Focus in on disproportionality. How do we spend the money that we raise? And let's be thoughtful about that.
00:33:41:29 - 00:34:10:04
Reuven Carlyle: So I'm not minimizing it or trivializing it. I'm just saying that if you're playing their game, if you're focused on that, what you're really not doing is the meaningful work. The economics for virtually every company of moving toward a resilient, adaptive system by 2050, if you sell, there's a small coffee company in Seattle. If you sell coffee as your main product in 50 years, all the coffee's grown in the equatorial belt.
00:34:10:04 - 00:34:20:25
Reuven Carlyle: If you don't have a climate strategy for your main product, that's a business resiliency problem. That's what I'm talking about focusing in on the real deal.
00:34:20:28 - 00:34:40:13
Sara Gutterman: Indeed. And you know, there are still some obstacles ahead. I read a news story just this morning about speaker McCarthy's debt ceiling plan that would potentially cut about 100,000 green manufacturing jobs, most of which are actually in red state. So there's just still, you know, a lot of that discussion.
00:34:40:17 - 00:34:41:22
Reuven Carlyle: No one's minimizing.
00:34:41:22 - 00:35:19:15
Reuven Carlyle: No one's minimizing that reality. Sarah, your spot on. The question is, are we going to spend 90% of our energy fighting the rhetorical narrative when they know they're not going to get a bill through or a Congress president veto? It won't get through the Senate or I'm not saying minimize. I'm not saying ignore Washington, D.C., in Congress, but they have an outsized influence on the vacuous rhetorical narrative compared to real elected officials at the state and local level who are implementing siting reform, who are implementing these policies for modernization of the grid and other very serious real deal issues.
00:35:19:16 - 00:35:28:20
Reuven Carlyle: 90% of that work is at the ground level once, now that the Inflation Reduction Act is a partner as opposed to an adversary in D.C..
00:35:28:21 - 00:35:42:12
Sara Gutterman: I love that answer, because at the end of the day, you're right. The power that governors and mayors and state elected officials and policymakers have within their own states absolutely cannot be.
00:35:42:13 - 00:35:43:10
Reuven Carlyle: It's a yes.
00:35:43:12 - 00:36:04:15
Reuven Carlyle: We need them. We need to first, we need them to be Hippocratic oath politically, do no harm. Right? And now that there's divided government, they're going to generally do nothing. So let them talk in their own little circles to each other and let them emit methane in their rhetoric. And let's focus on on climate action.
00:36:04:17 - 00:36:16:29
Sara Gutterman: I love that. So speaking of climate action, what are some of the climate solutions that you are most excited about right now? Innovations and current carbon tech, climate tech, etc.?
00:36:17:01 - 00:36:50:05
Reuven Carlyle: Sure. I mean, folks on this call know better than I do distributed energy systems, the circularity of energy systems. I think battery storage and energy storage is the most critical missing link in terms of R&D and innovation. We need, I think the electrification of transportation, of course, is incredibly exciting. I am worried about sustainable aviation fuel and the maritime sector relative to opportunities for decarbonization within those sectors.
00:36:50:05 - 00:37:18:01
Reuven Carlyle: It's particularly challenging, but I also think that modernization of the grid is exciting and incredibly important. Imagine a future of real time, interactive data between your home and the system that allows you to do true congestion pricing and true circularity, literally and figuratively of energy. And so I think that kind of modernization of the home is, is incredibly exciting, I think.
00:37:18:02 - 00:37:44:18
Reuven Carlyle: Land use policy and density is important, and we have to think a lot about that, what that really means. I also think that waste reduction and circularity associated with extended producer responsibility, our recycling system in the United States of America is a total, complete fraud. It's complete system failure, top to bottom, upside down and backwards. We don't recycle, you know, we recycle less than 10%.
00:37:44:18 - 00:38:07:02
Reuven Carlyle: And we know that the chemical industry has lobbied for years to put the externalities of their product on taxpayers. The system is a complete failure, and we've got to have the moral courage to find ways to build in circularity, and that means requiring the public to do something. We got to put out those little recycle bins and smaller so that they can do the sorting at the source.
00:38:07:02 - 00:38:32:25
Reuven Carlyle: And that's reality. We got to make it economically viable to do that. Another category that I like a lot is the sort of the fundamental concept of offshore wind. I just feel like renewable energy is exciting. We're talking off Washington about 5 to 7GW of power, and that is a transformational game changer. I think in ten years we'll have up and down the east and the West Coast substantial offshore wind developments.
00:38:32:29 - 00:38:35:02
Reuven Carlyle: Those are a few areas I like.
00:38:35:04 - 00:39:00:23
Sara Gutterman: Thank you. All right. So my last question before I kick it back over to Mike for some of his questions. When you stepped away from office, you said in your words that you were leaving to quote, consider new opportunities for leadership in other public and private sectors. Do you have plans for what's next? Are we going to find ways to support you in some kind of a national leadership position?
00:39:01:00 - 00:39:30:17
Reuven Carlyle: Thank you so much, I appreciate that. Look, I founded Earth Finance with a couple of fabulous friends, and we went out to the marketplace and we made this case that this work is possible. And we we did a substantial seed round of funding, raised $14 million. And we're building a company. We've hired 12, 13 plus people. We're hiring more and we're building out a product roadmap on the strategy side, but also on the climate finance and investing side and also on the technology side.
00:39:30:17 - 00:39:51:13
Reuven Carlyle: So we're I'm committed. I just believe in this work. I need to do this work full time. And that's where my my heart and my soul is after having this, you know, won a couple of Super Bowl rings politically of legislation. So this is what I'm doing right now. But I believe also that people are hungry for a pathway to see that it's possible.
00:39:51:13 - 00:40:08:17
Reuven Carlyle: So I'm super committed to this work and and in every aspect and the old fashioned silos between the public and the private sector are sort of intellectually uninteresting to me as well. I just think the work is the work.
00:40:08:20 - 00:40:21:05
Sara Gutterman: Well, as a recovered venture capitalist myself, I thank you for the work that you're doing and look forward to learning more about it. Mike, that's it for me. I'm going to kick it over to you. Thank you. Ruben, thank you again for being here today.
00:40:21:08 - 00:40:23:22
Reuven Carlyle: Thank you, Sarah, for everything.
00:40:23:24 - 00:40:47:17
Mike Collignon: All right. Yeah. Just a couple of questions for you, sir. And verbally to our audience, if they do have any questions, they can send them in by the questions box. It's great to hear that the Pacific region has been able to work together. It kind of reminds me a little bit of the the Reggie group from the northeast that worked on some emissions reduction.
00:40:47:17 - 00:41:07:27
Mike Collignon: In your experience as a legislator? How often do states outside of their own region collaborate on legislation or issues or just common interests? Because I'm trying to figure out how to proliferate some of these thought out ideas that you have.
00:41:08:00 - 00:41:46:10
Reuven Carlyle: So, you know, we coordinate as states all the time. And, you know, we have there's organizations, the national caucus, environmental legislators. There's a lot of non-profits. There's there's a conferences. So there's a there's a robust network of people who share. And that, of course, is both in the public sector and the private sector. So that's why I encourage people to when you come across a program or a policy or an investment area like apartment building that is net zero here in Seattle as an example, you know, share that with your network.
00:41:46:11 - 00:42:18:10
Reuven Carlyle: Share that. It's just we're living in a time in climate action where people just categorically reject that old cliche of not invented here. It's we want those best practices and show up with the data, show up with the evidence, and that's how things get traction. So it's not as euphemistic or as as distant as people think. You know, we're real legislators are real people living real lives and get, you know, get yourself in front of them and come up with a proposal and do the work.
00:42:18:11 - 00:42:37:01
Reuven Carlyle: 90% of painting a house is scraping and sanding and taping. Do the scraping and the sanding and the taping on a policy show up with a point of view and a framework of thinking. A lot of legislators and a lot of states don't even have staff. So you got to think about how to help them be successful. All the noise.
00:42:37:01 - 00:43:07:07
Reuven Carlyle: It's easy to cut a ribbon if you're a, you know, a governor or a senator or in Congress or whatever, or a prime minister, that's easy. What happens with that? That and $4 will get you a latte half the time. So that's what I'm talking about. Bring those that data and that evidence and those policy ideas. The idea for the the solar canopy over the commercial parking lot idea for that bill, I got that from a Yale 360 article that I just happened to stumble upon.
00:43:07:11 - 00:43:19:00
Reuven Carlyle: I sent it to staff. I said, let's write this up as a bill. And it passed. So that's that's the thing. Just be an ideas machine and then do the work.
00:43:19:02 - 00:43:29:20
Mike Collignon: We have a question from our friend Kim who asks, you know, your your coalition. There has a common coastline.
00:43:29:22 - 00:43:45:10
Mike Collignon: There are states in the Colorado River basin that are both blue and red. How would you suggest that they work together around the challenges that they face concerning water and climate change?
00:43:45:16 - 00:44:10:24
Reuven Carlyle: Yeah. Fabulous question. Thank you. Kim, I completely understand the magnitude of the issue. Can't can't imagine the anxiety that it's raising right now. You're absolutely right. I do want to remind folks, there is a perception that Washington, Oregon and California are, you know, highly Democratic. California has a two thirds supermajority of Democrats in their state legislature in Washington state.
00:44:10:26 - 00:44:34:03
Reuven Carlyle: Up until last year, we had a one vote majority, and the Republicans were in control from 2013 to 2018 of the state Senate. So we're very divided politically. We have just a slight Democratic majority. So just to put it in context, and my legislation passed 2524. So I'm deeply sensitive to this issue. It's not just a, you know, the perception is not exactly right.
00:44:34:08 - 00:44:56:19
Reuven Carlyle: I think look, water we know of course, is for fighting and whiskeys for, for drinking. And so the seriousness of of the water issue is right. I think part of it is having the moral courage to put the data on the table. We know that the Central Valley of California, issues associated with water consumption are the core issue.
00:44:56:19 - 00:45:16:26
Reuven Carlyle: And the battle between California and Arizona. I mean, the magnitude of the issue that you face is spot on. But I think bring the data to the table. And I heard I don't know if this is accurate, but I heard if Americans stopped eating avocados and almonds alone, that the water crisis issue associated with, you know, would get a ten year repeat.
00:45:16:28 - 00:45:39:12
Reuven Carlyle: I don't know if that's accurate. My point, I think, is bringing the real deal data. I'm a big fan of visualization because I was, you know, been in politics and bringing things alive for people in ways that they can hear and see. So show what are the three, four, five major? What are what's the 8020 rule? What are the 2 or 3 sources and then bring that to the table.
00:45:39:12 - 00:46:10:00
Reuven Carlyle: I also would not be above again doing your own private diplomacy. Set up a working group of activists who care, who understand what the hell is going on on this issue, and go to California and visit your colleagues there. Build those relationships. You know, don't be so all of us so intimidated by crossing the border, pick up the phone, find out who the moral authority thought leaders in those areas are, and have a different conversation.
00:46:10:02 - 00:46:31:05
Reuven Carlyle: Don't wait for a formal invitation from the white House for an embossed invitation. I mean, just, you know, let's figure it out. But it's it's hard. I don't minimize that challenge. We have a deep problem with water quality and water availability and accessibility here as well. So I really appreciate the question.
00:46:31:07 - 00:47:02:23
Mike Collignon: All right. Last one here Ruben. With all the energy and the passion that Gen Z brings and by the way, you bring wonderful energy and passion. You get as much as any speaker we've had. I love it, I hope it continues. But let's focusing on that generation for just a moment. Do you foresee the figurative snowball growing rapidly once the vast majority of that generation is a voting age?
00:47:02:25 - 00:47:24:10
Mike Collignon: Do you see some of this stuff really ramping up? Because I love and you're talking how you talked about we can do this now, but it does take political courage. It does take moral courage. It seems like that is a very fired up generation. We heard from some of them today. Do you see that change maybe coming pretty fast?
00:47:24:13 - 00:47:52:19
Reuven Carlyle: My wife and I, my wife's a physician. We have four kids, 16 through 24. I have a deep appreciation for the generational challenge and change and the issues. I think we have to have the courage to answer that honestly. And that is there is both. There is both extraordinary hope in the energy and the passion and the anger and the engagement of this generation.
00:47:52:19 - 00:48:12:06
Reuven Carlyle: And there's also deep frustration because as a general statement, as you as you know, as they do turn a voting age, they don't show up. It's just the truth. And some do and some don't. And I, I have to push and prod my own kids to make sure they vote. Some of them, some of them vote religiously. But, you know, it's a challenge.
00:48:12:06 - 00:48:34:27
Reuven Carlyle: And I think finding ways, you know, it's our job as our generation to do the work that we can't offload it. It doesn't mean we don't engage in in supporting young people and in, in a meaningful way. They are the energy, the voice, the passion, the soul of this work. I love listening to Greta and the speeches and the and the.
00:48:35:02 - 00:48:57:24
Reuven Carlyle: It's just inspiring at the same time. We're in rooms of power in our generation, and it's our moral responsibility to do the work. We don't have the time, so it's a yes and yes. I'm hopeful. Yes, I believe in the aspirations. Yes, I believe in the possible. But we don't have the time. We're on a 27 year journey to 2050.
00:48:57:28 - 00:49:03:28
Reuven Carlyle: That's it. And that's the work. We got to leave it all on the field for climate.
00:49:04:00 - 00:49:16:19
Mike Collignon: Well, thank you for your time, Rubin. Really appreciate your your energy, your passion, your presentation, what you brought to this today. Keep up the great work, sir. Really a big fan. Thank you sir.
00:49:16:21 - 00:49:36:15
Reuven Carlyle: Thank you. And I appreciate and I also want to thank everyone. I know that those who have a personal passion for the building sector bring something unique to this, to this battle and to this work. It's such a critical piece of it. And to all of those of you, I encourage you, please reach out to me on LinkedIn and Twitter.
00:49:36:15 - 00:49:47:01
Reuven Carlyle: Whatever. I really value best practices and data and evidence, and I want to be part of your your team and your work. So thank you for the honor of being your partner in this work.
00:49:47:03 - 00:49:48:15
Mike Collignon: Awesome. Thank you sir.
00:49:48:20 - 00:49:49:12
Reuven Carlyle: Thank you.