Pearl Certification CEO Cynthia Adams joins Green Builder Media CEO Sara Gutterman to argue that home valuation captures the purchase moment but ignores how a home actually performs over years of living in it. She explains Pearl's SCORE rating and home performance registry, and why certified high-performance homes only earn a roughly 5% premium when agents actually market those features.
00:00:05:07 - 00:00:31:11
Sara Gutterman: Welcome to The Valuation Metric, a podcast about the risks, rewards, roadblocks and revelations reshaping the way that we measure worth. I'm your host, Sara Gutman, CEO of Green Builder Media, North America's leading media company focused on green building and sustainable living. Today, I want to begin with a question that might feel a little uncomfortable. What if the housing crisis isn't really just about housing?
00:00:31:12 - 00:01:01:20
Sara Gutterman: What if it's a signal indicating that our internal systems are misaligned? We choose what to measure and value. We choose what to ignore. And so here we are not at a moment of incremental change, but a moment of reckoning, a reckoning with our metrics, our assumptions, our blind spots, and maybe a reckoning with ourselves. This is a conversation that I am excited to have today with Cynthia Adams, CEO of Pearl certification.
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Sara Gutterman: Cynthia has spent years doing something both simple and pretty radical, telling the truth about how homes actually perform and more importantly, how that performance should be recognized, valued, and rewarded. Cynthia, welcome.
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Cynthia Adams: Thank you. Sara. It's a pleasure to be here with you today. Good to see you.
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Sara Gutterman: Thank you. Lovely to see you as always. Now, when you step back and look at how we value homes today, what do you feel like we are not seeing? Not just technically, but fundamentally.
00:01:38:15 - 00:02:11:24
Cynthia Adams: I think what we're missing is how homes perform. And I think we're missing how they perform over time. Today's valuation captures that purchase moment in the home sale transaction really well, but it largely ignores what happens after the transaction. The part where you live in the home, you have to experience how comfortable or healthy it is, what it costs to operate, what it cost to maintain, and how it holds up as climate risks change.
00:02:11:26 - 00:02:27:01
Cynthia Adams: So there's this huge part of the homeowner experience that really never shows up in how we assess value. We're really good at pricing the transaction, but not so good at the lived experience which follows.
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Sara Gutterman: Cynthia, do you think that valuation gap is just a data problem, or is it something deeper, a reflection of how we've been taught to find value in our culture?
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Cynthia Adams: I think it's both a data problem and a definition problem, but I think the definition problem comes first in real estate. In particular, we've been taught to define value as what you can see, what you can compare easily. So that square footage, number of bedrooms, finishes, location, things that were all pretty familiar with. But these are proxies for value.
00:03:06:17 - 00:03:35:25
Cynthia Adams: I don't really think that their value in and of itself. And if I had to define value more directly, I'd say value again to me is really wrapped up in how that home actually performs for the person living in it. And and that includes everything from. Again, I mentioned comfort and health, but also resiliency and affordability. And the problem is that we haven't had a shared way to measure or communicate these things.
00:03:35:25 - 00:04:00:14
Cynthia Adams: So the market defaults to what's visible and to what's simple. I think that's where the gap comes from. It's not just missing data, it's that the industry has never had a common language for the things that determine how the home lives. So we didn't just miss the data, we kind of optimized around the wrong definition, if you will.
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Sara Gutterman: To that end, it feels like we've confused price with value and cost with worth. How do we untangle that?
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Cynthia Adams: I think we have to start by widening the lens. Price is like it's a moment in time. It's what you pay to acquire the home, whereas value is what the home delivers over years of actually living in it. And when you look at it that way, I think it's easier to separate cost and worse, a lower purchase price can actually come with higher operating costs, more maintenance and less comfort, whereas a higher priced home can actually be more affordable.
00:04:46:03 - 00:05:23:29
Cynthia Adams: Excuse me to live in over time. I think many builders now are kind of zeroing in on that when they're talking to buyers who are comparing existing homes with new construction. And the existing home may seem cheaper on the surface, but really cost more over time when you're you're comparing the lived experience. So I think that untangling it means shifting from a transaction mindset to more of, I'm going to call it a performance mindset, and it involves looking at the full cost of ownership and how that home performs over time, not just what it's sold for.
00:05:24:02 - 00:05:32:14
Cynthia Adams: If I had to summarize it, I think of price as a snapshot where value is really. It's more like a story that enfolds over time.
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Sara Gutterman: I really like the way that you're articulating that, and I like to say that cheap up front generally means expensive forever.
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Cynthia Adams: Now or until.
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Sara Gutterman: Now. As you've as you've indicated, a home is a lot more than a structure. It's a system. It's an environment. It's a container for human life. When that system is working, what does that give us? And when it's not, what does it take away? Talk a little bit about that lived experience.
00:06:05:17 - 00:06:36:22
Cynthia Adams: You know, it's ironic because the home was working really well. You almost don't notice it. It gives you comfort. It gives you stability. It gives you that sense of ease. It kind of fades into the background and lets you live your life when it's not working. Okay. That's when it does the opposite. It demands your attention and it might show up as higher bills, inconsistent temperatures, poor indoor air quality, things breaking down at the wrong time.
00:06:36:26 - 00:07:00:13
Cynthia Adams: So at that, in that moment, it takes your time. It takes your money, it takes your sense of well-being, and it creates this sort of unease and anxiety around the lived experience. So the difference it isn't often subtle, but it is the difference between a home that supports your life and one that kind of quietly erodes it.
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Sara Gutterman: So what is a home that actually shows up for people inside of it? Look like in your opinion?
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Cynthia Adams: I think it, it it's a building for well, it's really around the how the home shows up over time, not just how it looks on day one. I think that within real estate and oftentimes even within new construction, we've been optimizing for those first impressions granite countertops, hardwood floors, big master bathroom suites. But what matters is really how that home performs not just on day 100, but day 1000 and beyond.
00:07:40:17 - 00:08:11:08
Cynthia Adams: So we've optimized for the showing, and now we need to optimize for the living. A home that really works is one that you can rely on, right? It's comfortable every season. It doesn't surprise you with constant repairs or high bills, and it holds up as conditions around it also change. It consistently supports the people living in it. So for me, that's that's how I would define a home that shows up for the owner or the occupants.
00:08:11:11 - 00:08:43:25
Sara Gutterman: It's really interesting because our cognition, smart data reflects that. Younger generations, millennials and Gen Z in particular, really don't want those granite countertops or some of the upgrades or benefits that boomers who very much tie their identity into their homes wanted when they were, you know, buying their first homes and even Gen Xers, same thing. You know, some of the upgrades and features that they were looking for.
00:08:43:26 - 00:09:10:24
Sara Gutterman: Millennials, again, our data shows that they would so much rather have a sustainable quartz countertop or some other kind of countertop less square footage, but super efficient, you know, heat pump, HVAC and water heating systems and, you know, whole home indoor air quality systems and water monitoring and leak detection systems, as opposed to some of those cosmetic upgrades that used to be in vogue.
00:09:10:24 - 00:09:27:27
Sara Gutterman: And it's so clear that that transition has happened already in terms of home buyer demand. But I want to pivot and go a little bit deeper for a moment. Cynthia, do you feel like we've lost a sense of reverence for the spaces that we inhabit?
00:09:27:29 - 00:09:50:20
Cynthia Adams: You know, I do I do think we've lost some sense of reverence and maybe the younger generation and the ways that you're pointing out or picking it back up again, but particularly in how we talk about in transact homes, we tend to treat them like commodities. We focus on features in the square footage and the finishes. Like I've said, these things are easy to compare.
00:09:50:20 - 00:10:14:19
Cynthia Adams: They're easy for real estate agents to talk about and to market. But a home, I think, is something much more fundamental than that. It's the shelter, it's the safety. It's the backdrop in front of which your life actually unfolds. It's a place where people rest when they recover, where they create meaningful moments with their families and with their loved ones.
00:10:14:19 - 00:11:00:00
Cynthia Adams: And I think reverence comes from recognizing that a home encompasses all of these things. So when we reduce a home to like the set of visible attributes, or again, the price per square foot, we kind of lose that other important connection. And as having worked as a contractor myself at one point and learned a trade, I think that there's this dimension of craftsmanship and the dignity that comes with building a great home and living in a great home, a well-built home, something that's truly designed to support the people and the lifestyle in a in a sustainable way that goes beyond just fashion and trends.
00:11:00:00 - 00:11:14:09
Cynthia Adams: So the home isn't just something that you own, but at its very best, a home is something that takes care of you. So yeah, I do think we've lost some of the reverence. But what do you think about that, Sara? What is your answer to that?
00:11:14:12 - 00:11:41:01
Sara Gutterman: Thank you for asking, I absolutely do. I think that, you know, if you look at how housing was created, designed and built, frankly, before the SNL crisis in the 1980s, it was this very virtuous cycle where builders would borrow from their local banks or sals, which were created by the federal government after the Great Depression in the 20s.
00:11:41:04 - 00:12:21:23
Sara Gutterman: And they would build homes for families in communities, and families would move in and become important community members. And again, it became a very virtuous cycle. But then once the SNL crisis happened in the 80s and Wall Street came into the housing market and basically commodified, as you said, housing and and created this valuation metric at scale, because, again, as you said, it's neat, it's tidy, it fits into spreadsheets, but it takes out sustainability, performance, resiliency, wellness, energy independence.
00:12:21:23 - 00:13:04:10
Sara Gutterman: And I think at that time, if you look at the difference in the performance of the housing stock, there was less of a difference between homes that were built to price per square foot versus something like a value per square foot. Today, there's no apples to apples comparison anymore between homes that are optimized for price per square foot or, you know, are are basically designed and constructed to reduce and eliminate as much cost per square foot while still being legal, meaning building to code versus homes that are, you know, that nurture life itself and incorporate all of these different things.
00:13:04:11 - 00:13:11:09
Sara Gutterman: I mean, we're talking, you know, apples and electric vehicles or I mean, like, we're not even in the same boat.
00:13:11:13 - 00:13:14:20
Sara Gutterman: Or like we're we're not even in the same.
00:13:14:22 - 00:13:47:16
Sara Gutterman: Or species. And so I feel like in that way, by commoditized housing, we've reduced something that is deeply personal to something that can't accurately reflect the humanity that it should be and needs to. And I think in that way, we have not only been undervaluing our homes and an essential part of our economy, but we've been undervaluing life itself.
00:13:47:17 - 00:14:13:03
Sara Gutterman: And actually, since you asked, I will pontificate for one more minute and just say that I really believe that the division that we feel in our society right now and in our culture stems from the fact that we don't have deep roots in community anymore, like we once did. And I think that's partly because of technology and social media.
00:14:13:04 - 00:14:43:22
Sara Gutterman: Now, AI, which I use all of those things on a daily basis, you know, so I'm not anti any of those things, but I feel like we get so immersed in these things that don't let us take a pause and sit and connect with our own families and certainly not with our communities. And I feel like that has actually led to some of the division and the divisiveness in our in our culture today, not just in our nation, but in our international culture.
00:14:43:22 - 00:15:02:10
Sara Gutterman: And I think that part of that actually can be solved by those of us in the housing sector that are paying attention, that can actually create these vessels that promote more value and value life more.
00:15:02:12 - 00:15:29:27
Cynthia Adams: It's interesting use of the word vessel. That's definitely a loaded turn, but I don't disagree with it. Thinking about how you reminded me once upon a time in a galaxy far away when I worked as a general contractor, we had a family that was very steeped in sustainability and wanting to help educate their their kids about that. And we were we were building house for them.
00:15:29:27 - 00:15:52:17
Cynthia Adams: And one of the things that we did was we well, they actually not we but they, they, they and their daughters spent some time one day in the house after it had been framed out, recognizing the trees that gave their lives in order to do the framework for their home, and just kind of saying a little bit of a prayer.
00:15:52:17 - 00:16:14:15
Cynthia Adams: And I know that may sound kind of cheesy or woo woo, but it it was actually a really beautiful moment of, of recognizing that this shelter, you know, for them and for their families, it didn't just magically appear out of thin air. It it came from the community. Can you from logging the forest to create the space for them and their families to grow up.
00:16:14:15 - 00:16:20:07
Cynthia Adams: And they brought their gratitude into their home, you know, as a part.
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Sara Gutterman: You know, that's.
00:16:20:28 - 00:16:51:22
Sara Gutterman: So interesting. I was just listening to a podcast, actually, with a leading neurobiologist, a Harvard professor and researcher, and he said that, you know, the four things that keep couples together in romantic relationships, but that also just create adhesion within relationships in general, or one you keep looking, looking at each other in the eyes to you always hold hands or just, you know, hug or touch one another just throughout the day.
00:16:51:22 - 00:17:19:20
Sara Gutterman: Make sure you're doing that three you read to one another and then for is you, you pray together. And he said, it doesn't have to be to a god, any god, multiple gods, you know, it could be nature or the trees. And so when you said what you just did about saying that prayer to the trees in reverence for the space around us, it reminded me of that because I do feel like the power of prayer.
00:17:19:20 - 00:17:33:16
Sara Gutterman: And again, it doesn't have to be a religious prayer. It could just be gratitude. It's so important for the foundational.
00:17:33:18 - 00:18:09:14
Sara Gutterman: Understanding of the value of life. I think, you know, when we can can have gratitude as one of our core pillars of just operating as a human being. Then, you know, I think everything around us reflects that, including our homes and our spaces. So I love that you brought that up. Thank you. Yeah. And that leads me to my next question, which is, you know, people are so conditioned to see what they see and not see what they don't see.
00:18:09:14 - 00:18:28:09
Sara Gutterman: But how do we help people actually see what they've been conditioned to overlook, not just intellectually, but intuitively. And I'm asking this question, just generally speaking, because I'm curious to hear your answer, but also particularly when it comes to our homes and our spaces.
00:18:28:12 - 00:19:02:08
Cynthia Adams: I think we need to do more work in the industry at making the invisible visible in a way that people can actually feel and understand by translating that data into lived experience. To a certain extent, I think it's about storytelling. Most people don't struggle to understand facts. They struggle to connect those facts to their daily life in, in, in thinking about what that home will actually feel like, you can tell someone that a home, you know, maybe an existing home, they're looking at buying it.
00:19:02:08 - 00:19:24:08
Cynthia Adams: Someone told me this, by the way, when I bought my house, my homeless. You have an old furnace. It's 18 years old. It's 80% efficient. And oh, by the way, some of your ducks are ten inches wide and some of them are four inches wide. That registers to me intellectually, but that's really different from the first morning that I woke up in the house smelling gas.
00:19:24:13 - 00:19:45:28
Cynthia Adams: You know, that smell that was blowing at me from across the room and filthy registers, and knowing that one room of the house was like steaming hot in the other rooms of the house were freezing cold as I walked from one side of the house to the other because of my my duct issue. And that's a situation where performance for me became really real.
00:19:46:00 - 00:20:14:24
Cynthia Adams: And I want to talk to people about it because it's not just facts and figures, it's a lived experience that either creates, again, a wonderful backdrop for you, your family, your friends, or one that is not so great. So I think the shift is from talking about features to also talking about how that home lives or thinking about benefits in the case of homes that have had improvements or are built better to begin with.
00:20:14:25 - 00:20:30:08
Cynthia Adams: So what does it feel like? Not just what it costs? How does it behave over time? And when people can see and and feel experience it, not just read the data, I think it becomes more intuitive.
00:20:30:11 - 00:20:51:29
Sara Gutterman: Yeah, I love that. Now in the housing sector, we have built systems for appraisal and lending and underwriting that really reinforce this outdated definition of value. So what breaks first the data, the models or the mindset? How do we push through and create a new model?
00:20:52:02 - 00:21:16:15
Cynthia Adams: I think data is easier to to move first. The mindset is the hardest thing to change. We see more data becoming available around how homes perform. You mentioned AI. You can take a picture of things in a house and upload it to AI, and it can come back to you with all kinds of information and models will follow.
00:21:16:15 - 00:21:48:13
Cynthia Adams: Is that data improves? But the mindset that takes longer, that's shaped by habit, it's shaped by incentives, it's shaped by what the system has historically rewarded. So I think real change happens when there's like a consistent. I'm going to say a shared standard that people can trust. And that's what that allows the appraisers and the lenders and the home owners to start seeing value through a different lens, not as like this one off insight, but is something that is reliable and repeatable.
00:21:48:15 - 00:21:55:26
Cynthia Adams: Standards are what turn data into trust, and trust is ultimately, I think, what helps to shift behavior.
00:21:55:28 - 00:22:03:23
Sara Gutterman: Which stakeholders, in your opinion, are the linchpin for that transformation?
00:22:03:26 - 00:22:11:27
Cynthia Adams: I think that, man, the real estate is have a lot to do with it. They do because.
00:22:11:29 - 00:22:12:26
Sara Gutterman: They're like.
00:22:12:28 - 00:22:38:04
Cynthia Adams: Yeah, yeah. The translator there, that middle layer between consumers and builders or buyers and sellers, they are the purview of data that makes its way into the MLS or more often not when it comes to homes performance features. So I don't think that you're going to see a big market transformation shift without bringing the real estate community along for the ride.
00:22:38:07 - 00:22:50:11
Sara Gutterman: And if we get this right, if we are able to shift, say, from price per square foot to value per square foot, what changes? What does that look like in your opinion?
00:22:50:14 - 00:23:18:24
Cynthia Adams: I think we move from just measuring square footage, number of bedrooms and baths to measuring performance. So price per square foot, as you well know, tells you how big a home is. Value per square foot will tell you what actually works in that home its operational costs, its comfort, its durability, its resilience, etc. so when that shift happens, I think people are empowered to make better decisions.
00:23:18:26 - 00:23:40:23
Cynthia Adams: Buyers can compare homes more meaningfully. Investments favor long term performance over that short term, you know, sort of esthetic appeal. And over time, I hope that the market then ultimately rewards the homes that have these improvements, the homes that support the people living in them, and not just the ones that look pretty in the photos or on paper.
00:23:40:24 - 00:23:47:23
Sara Gutterman: Yeah. Are we ready for that shift? And if not, what's holding us back?
00:23:47:25 - 00:23:51:05
Cynthia Adams: We're a little bit early. Unfortunately. We're getting.
00:23:51:05 - 00:23:54:26
Sara Gutterman: Closer, aren't we?
00:23:54:28 - 00:24:13:06
Cynthia Adams: I mean, again, it's partly the mind shift that, you know, everyone is sort of I don't we're not holding our breath. I think a lot of us are charging card in that direction. And the macro trends are also driving us there. Right. Like energy costs are going up. Hello data centers. Climate risk is becoming more visible. Hello insurer ability.
00:24:13:09 - 00:24:42:22
Cynthia Adams: People are starting to feel it now. But what's holding us back is that combination of inertia and infrastructure. The industry was built around a certain way of valuing homes, and it takes time to shift that. And until there are clear, trusted standards that everyone can use, I think adoption is likely to stay a little bit uneven. But change also happens when the cost of ignoring something becomes too high, and we're definitely moving in that direction.
00:24:42:25 - 00:24:59:22
Sara Gutterman: Now, speaking of clear, trusted standards data, I want to make sure that I asked you about the Pearl registry. So can you tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing with Pearl and talk about your registry?
00:24:59:24 - 00:25:31:23
Cynthia Adams: Yeah. Thank you. I'd be happy to. Pearl started out as a certification service for high performance homes, and we demonstrated through that that that high performing homes are, in fact, worth more done. Independent appraisal studies that documented, on average, of 5% premium for homes that had high performing features. And all of that was great. But it turns out that our focus just on high performance home ended up segmenting the market, rather than bringing all of the market along for the ride.
00:25:31:25 - 00:25:59:10
Cynthia Adams: So we've evolved into a rating system for homes, and the rating that we look at homes is through performance. So we have a Pearl score where scores is an acronym. That sale is for safety, comfort, operations, resilience and energy. And we've scored and done an hourly energy model in 97 million single family homes. It's available that information for free and our home performance registry at Pearl.
00:25:59:13 - 00:26:26:02
Cynthia Adams: Com. You can go pop in an address and see see what comes up. And then for For Sale homes. Now we are releasing it to market. We've released in the market actually as of a week or two ago, a score report, which at the moment is available for free for for sale homes. And it's meant to provide buyers with this visibility in this insight into a homes performance based upon what we know about that home in the public record.
00:26:26:02 - 00:26:52:08
Cynthia Adams: So we don't have a magic wand, or see through glasses to see everything that's in the home. If it's in the public record, we can pull on that and we can pull on what codes said about the home at the time at which it was built. But the goal here is really to educate buyers and provide them and their agents with the language and the standard that's been missing, so that we have a new way to think about homes in terms of value for squat.
00:26:52:10 - 00:26:56:03
Cynthia Adams: Excuse me, per square foot, not just price per square foot.
00:26:56:10 - 00:27:23:29
Sara Gutterman: I love that. Now, you said something that I want to ask you about. You said that in the beginning when you had the certification, you did research and you the research came back to say that high performance homes sold faster and for a better value or higher prices, more money. Did you pull that data from MLS or how did you access that data?
00:27:24:02 - 00:27:58:04
Cynthia Adams: You know, we did. We commissioned an independent appraiser study. We did a couple of and those were peer reviewed using a statistically significant samples in both cases of the study. One was published in 2017 and the second one was published, I want to say, in 2022. And those studies used a parent sales analysis. So they looked at homes that had the same square footage, the same number of bedrooms that sold in the same area.
00:27:58:04 - 00:28:26:20
Cynthia Adams: They sold within the same 6 to 9 month time frame. So really in apples to apples comparison. And what they found was that homes that had the certification and where the agent used the certification as a part of the marketing in that home saw on average, a 5% price premium. What's really interesting is that homes that had the certification, so they had the high performance features, but the agent didn't talk about those features in their marketing of that home.
00:28:26:23 - 00:28:35:14
Cynthia Adams: They didn't see a premium. So it's not the features exist. It's that you have to call attention to them. You have to make that value visible as well.
00:28:35:16 - 00:29:03:05
Sara Gutterman: Well, that's really interesting. I'm really happy to hear that you got the results that you did, because we see on a national level, but particularly, you know, in certain markets that they're somewhere between that, say, 3 to 5% all the way up to even 12% increase in the resale value for high performance homes that include resiliency and wellness and energy independence features.
00:29:03:07 - 00:29:34:05
Sara Gutterman: But I so agree with you that unless those benefits are communicated or unless they're translated into the MLS and they make it into the appraisal forms, it's really hard to to actualize that, that the value there in that in the second, third, fourth, fifth transaction, not even just the first transaction. So I want to ask you two questions that I asked all of my guests.
00:29:34:09 - 00:29:41:23
Sara Gutterman: First is what is value per square foot mean to you?
00:29:41:25 - 00:29:43:20
Cynthia Adams: I'm going to I'm, I'm.
00:29:43:23 - 00:29:47:11
Cynthia Adams: I'm going back to that.
00:29:47:13 - 00:30:15:03
Cynthia Adams: Same stated that I've made. And that for me, value for per square foot is accountable to the home's performance, not just how it looks. So it's how that home delivers on comfort, on health, on resilience, on efficiency. Not all square footage is equal, and that the value per square foot for me makes these sorts of features or benefits, I should say, visible.
00:30:15:05 - 00:30:34:01
Sara Gutterman: I love that not all square footage is equal. All right. And my second question is if listeners could carry one idea forward from this conversation, one truth that might change the way that they see the world and value the things around them, what would it be?
00:30:34:03 - 00:31:02:29
Cynthia Adams: Dear God, please remember you are not just buying a home, you are buying how that home will live. You are buying what it feels like to wake up there every morning. You are buying how comfortable it is throughout the day you are buying. Would it cost to operate and how well that home holds up over time. These are the things that shape our daily experiences far more than the finishes of the floor plan.
00:31:03:01 - 00:31:14:00
Cynthia Adams: So once you start seeing homes that way, I think it changes what you pay attention to and ultimately what you decide that home is worth to you.
00:31:14:02 - 00:31:41:02
Sara Gutterman: I love that. Well, Cynthia, thank you so much for being here with me today. This conversation has really reminded us that our homes shape us. They shape how we feel, how we breathe, how we sleep, how we connect. And yet we've been valuing them as if none of that matters. But it does matter. And value isn't just about what something costs, it's about what it sustains and protects and makes possible.
00:31:41:04 - 00:31:55:26
Sara Gutterman: So again, thank you so much for being here today on the valuation metric. I'm Sara Gutterman reminding you to always measure what matters. Because when we do we can create a better future. Thank you. Cynthia.
00:31:55:28 - 00:32:07:02
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