Green Builder Media CEO Sara Gutterman talks with Thrive Home Builders' Bill Rectanus and Phyn CEO Ryan Kim about worsening drought and the scarcity of water rights in the West. They discuss how leak detection, monitoring and conservation technology are changing what builders can deliver and how homeowners use water.
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Sara Gutterman: I am Sarah. I'm CEO of Green Builder Media and I am here today with Ryan Kim, CEO of fin and Bill, CEO of Thrive Homebuilders, to talk about water. Water is arguably the most important topic of this moment, according to the World Resources Institute, two thirds of the global population will live in water stressed areas by 2025 as a result of climate change and population growth.
00:00:40:26 - 00:01:13:24
Sara Gutterman: Humans consume over 9,000,000,000m³ of water per year, a number that is increasing by nearly 2% annually, and the leading offenders are China, India and the United States, consuming about one point 2,000,000,000m³ each year, respectively, in the built environment. Water is the number one prohibiting factor to growth because if there is no water, there are no permits, and unfortunately, archaic laws sometimes stand in the way of common sense solutions within the built environment.
00:01:13:26 - 00:01:41:12
Sara Gutterman: But nonetheless, net zero water is now an attainable goal through the deployment of technologies and strategies that address conservation, monitoring, recycling and environmentally appropriate discharging practices. With that said, exploding water tap fees have contributed to surging home prices and development delays in markets where hook up costs are exploding by up to 400% in certain markets across the US.
00:01:41:13 - 00:02:13:21
Sara Gutterman: And we're also seeing moratoriums in unlikely places like Bainbridge Island in Washington and in Florida because of depleted water sources. But fortunately, we've got really smart minds working on the water problem, and this water sector is experiencing substantial innovation and technological advances in areas like low flow plumbing fixtures, greywater systems, smart irrigation systems, on demand hot water or circulatory system, and leak detection and water monitoring systems.
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Sara Gutterman: And so I'd like to bring in Bill and Ryan into this conversation. Bill, let's start with you. Because Thrive Homebuilders is a leading, high performance, healthy home builder is experiencing some issues particularly related to water. Can you talk with us about those issues and maybe give some examples of how water as a, as a kind of a challenge has hindered some of thrives development initiatives?
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Bill Rectanus: Absolutely. Sarah, we you know, in the western United States, water is becoming more and more of an important conversation. It's it's harder and harder to come by our we're seeing pretty significant changes in in our area, the country in the Front Range of Colorado where we're getting a lot less precipitation each year, greater wildfires. And that all trickles down to water supply down in the Denver metro area.
00:03:07:11 - 00:03:37:05
Bill Rectanus: And there are some municipalities where it's much more difficult to secure the water or the water rights that you need to to move into your next development. We have had those issues and developments where we've been under contract for land and simply haven't been able to secure the water rights due to a lack of water rights available on the market and just an exorbitant cost associated with getting those water rights, and then figuring out the water rights that we purchased.
00:03:37:05 - 00:03:51:00
Bill Rectanus: How do I get that water to the community in a way that makes the community viable? And so it's definitely something here in Colorado in the Front Range that is is on the front lines of many builders and developers.
00:03:51:02 - 00:04:25:06
Sara Gutterman: Ryan, I am so happy to to introduce you to our audience and to have the opportunity to talk with you about fin, because not only is Fin producing pivotal solutions for leak detection and water management, which we're seeing a marked increase in interest and the actual purchase and adoption of these technologies, but you're also collecting great data on water usage and helping inform homeowners about their water usage so that they can make better decisions about how and when they use water.
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Sara Gutterman: So can you talk to us a little bit about your solutions, as well as the data that you're able to to provide in a very useful way to homeowners?
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Ryan Kim: Yeah, we started developing this technology just over ten years ago. So there's over a decade of of research and development behind the fin products. And we have a. A handful of devices, different solutions that monitor water usage in the home. In the case of our fin Plus, we just released our next generation. Second generation of it is able to also mitigate damage with a automated shut off that gets installed on your main line.
00:05:07:19 - 00:05:43:12
Ryan Kim: And what we're able to do from that one device in is monitor all of the water usage in your entire plumbing system, detect any kind of anomalies, and alert you if there's a concern. Automatically shut off the system. The AI platform feels like there is an imminent, you know, catastrophic damage while also monitoring your usage and itemizing it so that you can tell when a total flush is and how much water it's used and how long showers are being taken, and you know how much water irrigation is taking.
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Ryan Kim: And we're able to help you educate and identify where water is being wasted.
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Sara Gutterman: Bill, back to you. I'm really happy to kind of give a sneak peek that we are going to be launching soon. A vision House community in conjunction with thrive called Saunders that's in Fort Collins, Colorado. And I know that thrive has made a decision to work with Fin and incorporate this leak detection and water management technology into your homes from a builder perspective.
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Sara Gutterman: Talk to us a little bit about why you've decided to specify these products for homes and what you're trying to offer homeowners, and how it enhances the homeowner experience.
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Bill Rectanus: Yeah, absolutely. I think there's three, three key buckets that we looked at and we looked at fin that I think the fin product really helps us address. And the first is, is water leaks, the potential of water leaks. You know, we have pretty strict protocols that we go through when we're going through our home to make sure we don't have water leaks.
00:06:49:10 - 00:07:18:01
Bill Rectanus: But from time to time, accidents happen and there are water leaks, and water leaks can be water leaks. La the most expensive warranty issue on the books because when water starts leaking you're talking drywall damage, trim damage, flooring damage. I mean, it can be pretty significant. And so, you know, when those rare occurrences happen, if we have that backup mechanism that can help minimize that or stop that before significant damage occurs.
00:07:18:01 - 00:07:41:19
Bill Rectanus: It one saves in warranty costs, which is important. But even more importantly, it protects our reputation with the buyer. It helps us solve what could otherwise have been a pretty significant issue with that buyer, and strengthens our relationship with that homeowner and and helps us provide them something that's offering a level of protection not only during the warranty period, but throughout the life of their home.
00:07:41:26 - 00:08:04:07
Bill Rectanus: The second thing is, the Saunders community is a 55 plus targeted active adult community, and so we believe that there's potential for a lot of lock and leave residents in this community and having that control over your water system, having that protection while you're away is a great benefit. When you're looking at a lock and leave, type a home that you're living in.
00:08:04:07 - 00:08:25:23
Bill Rectanus: And then finally, as I mentioned earlier, just the lack of of water and water rights available on the Front Range, we get into a lot of conversations about how much water we need to attribute to each home. And each water district has their own assessment, their own calculation that says for each home, use X amount of water rights allocated.
00:08:25:25 - 00:09:04:00
Bill Rectanus: What we'd really like to do and are looking forward to working with Fin on, is understanding how much benefit all the water conservation measures that we're putting into our homes, whether that's tanks, water heaters, recirculating systems, low flow fixtures and water certification that are all going to be part of this community. How much does that help us to be able to have a better conversation with the water district down the road, to potentially move into the next phase or next filing, and be able to attribute fewer water rights per home, because we have demonstrated actual savings beyond the calculations that they have typically put in place for their district.
00:09:04:00 - 00:09:09:29
Bill Rectanus: So I would say those three things are the big things we're really excited about working with them on.
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Sara Gutterman: And that actually dovetails very nice into the next question, Ryan, that I have for you, which is I know that Fin has some data on overall water savings and just the enhancement of that homeowner experience, but so can you talk about those things as well as what Bill just discussed in terms of any programs that you have in place with water utilities or rebates or anything like that that has to offer that further helps homeowners?
00:09:40:25 - 00:10:19:28
Ryan Kim: We've done extensive studies in single family residential to even, you know, restaurants in parts of the country. And what we're seeing is anywhere from 15% and in some cases, even up to 30% water savings with with solutions installed. And that comes from a couple of different sources. One is, as Bill mentioned, leaks. I'll give you an example. A single toilet flapper leaking can waste up to 1000 gallons of water per day.
00:10:20:00 - 00:10:41:13
Ryan Kim: It seems unreal, but it's true. You know, it's constantly leaking water through that flapper. And you know, we have studies that show on the average, about 1000 gallons of water is wasted. And so that's on the sort of the higher end. And then you have, you know, the everyday kinds of things that people don't really think twice about.
00:10:41:16 - 00:11:05:25
Ryan Kim: It's the it's the kitchen faucet that's just left running while you're doing the dishes, you know, and the outdoor spigots that's running, or the outdoor irrigation that is running into the streets and buildings all add up. And you do it every day and every month that's happening in millions of homes. And when we calculate that that number, it's a it's a tremendous amount of water being, being wasted.
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Ryan Kim: So we have the ability.
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Ryan Kim: To identify all of those.
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Ryan Kim: Usage events.
00:11:13:12 - 00:11:40:22
Ryan Kim: And label them as either, you know, it was a shower and it's normal or is a shower and it's abnormal or there is an unknown, abnormal event and all of those things through through our our highly rated app educates consumers, homeowners around, around their daily habits and how they can save water and save money throughout through the process.
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Ryan Kim: Preventing leaks.
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Ryan Kim: Is a big deal, but the cost of water is rising everywhere. As an example, la DWP recently announced that in the tier three, we have a tiered system out here and in a tier three water usage scenario, rates may go up 110% in tier three. Because we're in such a state of drought and because of that, utilities throughout the country are jumping in, recognizing the value that that same solutions and solutions like this can can solve for about 15% is a tremendous amount of water.
00:12:17:11 - 00:12:43:26
Ryan Kim: And that's on the lower end and on the higher end, 30% is, you know, is significant. And so give you an example, a metropolitan water District of Southern California, MWD, the largest wholesale water distributor in the country. They directly or indirectly service up to 19 million homes, and they today provide a $100 rebate if you install a finless.
00:12:43:28 - 00:13:10:20
Ryan Kim: Santa Fe has a similar rebate program. In fact, in Santa Fe, if you're a restaurant and you want to install a pin plus bill rebate, you up to $300. The Orlando Utilities Commission recently enacted a $100 rebate as well. So it's Southern Nevada. Water also has it. It's starting to become a spread much quicker where utilities are benefiting from this.
00:13:10:20 - 00:13:41:00
Ryan Kim: And it's not just utilities. Insurance companies also recognize the benefit of preventing water related disasters. It's the second highest claim source in the insurance industry for for homeowners. And so they recognize it. And the vast majority of insurance companies also provide up to 15% rebates on your premiums. And in conjunction with the utilities and and insurance companies, then offers certain partnership based upfront discounts as well.
00:13:41:07 - 00:14:09:18
Sara Gutterman: Very interesting. Thanks, Ryan. I want to talk a little bit about codes and mandates. You know, we're starting to see more kind of net zero water impact mandates in certain municipalities. And Ryan, you mentioned a few markets that certainly we're watching right now. Santa Fe has the lowest per capita water usage per day, at about 86 gallons per person per day.
00:14:09:22 - 00:14:33:01
Sara Gutterman: Las Vegas is a little bit over 100 gallons per person per day, but California just implemented a mandate in certain markets that residents have to be at 55 gallons per person per day. And if you think about that, a ten minute shower uses about 25 gallons, and that's half of your daily water usage. I mean, clearly we have to solve for water.
00:14:33:01 - 00:15:01:25
Sara Gutterman: So, Bill, let me ask you first, are you seeing any codes along the Front Range where thrive builds that you know are really going to impact the way that we think about how we build and design homes and how we approach kind of the built environment with respect to to water. And if if you don't see anything right now, do you see anything that's kind of pending or or in process?
00:15:01:28 - 00:15:30:06
Bill Rectanus: I'm not seeing a whole bunch of building code specific changes related directly to water. I am seeing different water districts really starting to experiment with things like gray water systems and doing studies and lead detection systems, and seeing how much savings are associated with that, and discussing the opportunity for potential rebates or taxi reductions for builders and homeowners that use these types of equipment.
00:15:30:06 - 00:15:54:03
Bill Rectanus: I'm not aware of any that are in place yet in this market, where I am seeing some regulations around. Water is an exterior, landscaping and irrigation. There are municipalities that are requiring gray water or gray water usage, recycled water usage for exterior landscaping, certain types of plant species. Certain types of irrigation to exterior in Colorado is a big user of water, obviously.
00:15:54:03 - 00:16:22:28
Bill Rectanus: And so that's where I'm seeing some of the the local municipal regulations in the zoning code and stuff like that, but not not in the specific building code as of yet. But it is becoming more and more of an issue. And certain municipalities have a much greater problem with water than others on the Front Range. Some have done really well at securing future water supplies and making sure that they have the water available for the current residents and growth within the municipality, and some don't.
00:16:22:29 - 00:16:31:09
Bill Rectanus: And so those that don't, you're seeing right away from up, you're seeing more attention to this issue. And so I expect it to really evolve quickly over, over the short term.
00:16:31:09 - 00:17:00:16
Sara Gutterman: So, Ryan, I like to think about Fin as a leak detection and water management technology provider, but really more as a water solutions company. And so with that in mind, you know, what's what's next for Fin? How does Fin evolve? Certainly, you know, growing awareness and adoption of your current products. But talk to us a little bit if you can, about future use cases and innovation that you're working on.
00:17:00:18 - 00:17:34:06
Ryan Kim: Sure. Fin when from the day we started Fin, we came up with a three pronged three pillars of what we were going to be, how we were going to help. And it starts with protect, which is really lead detection and saving money for for homeowners and going into conserve. And then finally getting into the enhanced. Well, and we have been following that ever since inception.
00:17:34:09 - 00:18:03:15
Ryan Kim: And we believe today that we have the best technology, the best user experience, really the best solution around protect. And as we head into Conserve and Enhance, we're looking at other opportunities beyond just how much water is being used. But reading insights into that water usage. As human beings, one of the first things we do when we wake up in the morning is we use water.
00:18:03:15 - 00:18:33:28
Ryan Kim: I'm sure if you think about your morning routine today, that's exactly what you did. And one of the last things we will do before we go to bed is we will use water. And throughout the day, you know, if we're residing in a specific area, we're using water. Take the Saunders community as an example. In that 55 plus active individuals, you know, as we get older, we tend to stay at home more.
00:18:34:01 - 00:19:06:13
Ryan Kim: And if we read into our health and wellness inside of a home, water usage and being able to track and monitor that water usage and look for changes in the usage patterns around that water behavior is a leading indicator of of potential failing health. If the toilet is being flushed, you know, on average every 2 or 3 hours and a cycle dismissed or maybe even two cycles of missed, that's an indication that may be something wrong.
00:19:06:16 - 00:19:38:00
Ryan Kim: If showers are less frequently used, that might be an indication. If I was running for too long, that might be an indication. You know, our intake of water, drinking water is reflected and we can identify that that kind of usage. So as we look at how do we enhance our lives with our solutions, our AI capabilities, all the data around behavior and water usage that we have, how do we enhance our lives to not just protect the home, but also protect the people that are living in it?
00:19:38:00 - 00:19:44:08
Ryan Kim: And if we look towards that, we think there's a huge amount of benefit that we can provide to the health and wellness segment.
00:19:44:11 - 00:19:52:24
Sara Gutterman: So last question for both of you, Bill, anything else you want to say about the topic of Water Saunders or Fins.
00:19:52:26 - 00:20:19:23
Bill Rectanus: Drive? Homebuilders is really even focused on energy and health over the years, and we continue to be focused on that. And I think we're really excited to step into the Saunders community and with a partnership of Fin, really focus on water at a higher level. You know, as I mentioned earlier, just the drought we're experiencing in the West, the forest fires, the the lack of available water for development, it's a big issue and it's going to get nothing but worse.
00:20:19:23 - 00:20:43:16
Bill Rectanus: And so we're really excited to be on the forefront of looking at that and partnering with companies like Ben to try and find solutions that work both for the homeowner, the municipal water district and the builder so that we can have a high quality of life here in the Front Range, even with some challenges in the ability to find and be pure water moving forward.
00:20:43:19 - 00:20:46:09
Sara Gutterman: Ryan, how about you? Any final thoughts?
00:20:46:15 - 00:21:12:25
Ryan Kim: Yeah, no, I think I echo Bill's sentiment in water is going to be continually scarce, especially in the in the Western. You know, some places are going to get inundated with water. And with the global climate change continuing to roll through. And, you know, lots of places are going to.
00:21:12:27 - 00:21:53:07
Ryan Kim: Be in drought stricken areas. And I think both the the depth of the drought is going to increase and the the spread of the drought is also going to increase. And, you know, awareness around water, the need to conserve water is only going to grow. And I want to thank Bill and the rest of the folks that thrive for, you know, being the innovators, that they are looking ahead, recognizing the the value, the challenge and the opportunity and innovating and working with us to to not only just spread the word, but actually execute and implement these solutions that are going to be critical in the future.
00:21:53:09 - 00:22:18:05
Sara Gutterman: Wonderful. Well, Bill and Ryan, thank you so much for being here with me today. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We are so excited to have the opportunity to work with Thrive and Within to showcase these innovative water solutions and technologies in a community where we really know it will make a big difference. So thanks for your partnership and look forward to great things ahead.