Matt Risinger: The Next Wave of HVAC Innovation

00:00:03:03 - 00:00:30:19
Sara Gutterman: Hi, I'm Sarah Gutterman, CEO of Green Builder Media. Today we are diving into one of the most exciting and fastest evolving areas in high performance building, Hvac innovation. Over the past few years, we have seen massive transformation across the housing sector driven by electrification, digitization, and an entirely new approach to comfort and energy efficiency. Hvac systems aren't just about heating and cooling anymore.

00:00:30:20 - 00:00:56:09
Sara Gutterman: They're becoming intelligent, grid aware and central to the decarbonization of our homes. So to unpack where the industry is headed, I am joined by someone who lives and breathes building performance. Matt Risinger. Builder, educator and host of the Build Show Network. Matt. Then on the front lines of innovation for decades, helping builders understand what works, what doesn't, and what's next.

00:00:56:13 - 00:01:03:10
Sara Gutterman: How do you see the balance between design, performance and comfort evolving in residential HPC?

00:01:03:13 - 00:01:06:16
Matt Risinger: Design is a big deal. You know, when I started in the industry.

00:01:06:16 - 00:01:09:15
Matt Risinger: 30 years ago, there was very, very minimal.

00:01:09:15 - 00:01:13:16
Matt Risinger: Design. It was how many square feet to the house? Let's divide that by some.

00:01:13:16 - 00:01:16:03
Matt Risinger: Ratio of 3 or 4 or 500ft² at.

00:01:16:03 - 00:01:27:17
Matt Risinger: The time. And then, the crew would show up with that size equipment and a bunch of boxes and flex duct and would do it and install. And I hate to say it, but that's still happening to.

00:01:27:17 - 00:01:28:24
Matt Risinger: A large degree.

00:01:28:24 - 00:01:33:00
Matt Risinger: And the overall industry. But when you think about your audience, people.

00:01:33:00 - 00:01:35:07
Matt Risinger: That are, that are reading green building.

00:01:35:10 - 00:01:39:25
Matt Risinger: You know, media, I think we've really moved into a new.

00:01:39:25 - 00:01:42:04
Matt Risinger: Era and a better era of.

00:01:42:06 - 00:01:47:17
Matt Risinger: Thinking about and designing systems for the house and spending a long.

00:01:47:17 - 00:01:48:28
Matt Risinger: Many hours.

00:01:49:00 - 00:01:51:11
Matt Risinger: Before we show up. To.

00:01:51:11 - 00:01:51:25
Matt Risinger: Really think.

00:01:51:25 - 00:01:54:12
Matt Risinger: About, hey, what's what's the right system for this house?

00:01:54:12 - 00:01:56:02
Matt Risinger: Let's really do.

00:01:56:04 - 00:02:10:11
Matt Risinger: More than just have my manufacturer, at the supply house, do a manual J and ten minutes. You know, I'm actually seeing my colleagues, being willing to spend the money on Hvac design. I.

00:02:10:11 - 00:02:12:20
Matt Risinger: Think we're going to see more and more of that over.

00:02:12:20 - 00:02:15:12
Matt Risinger: Time, but that gets me really excited that people.

00:02:15:12 - 00:02:16:09
Matt Risinger: Are seeing.

00:02:16:09 - 00:02:24:02
Matt Risinger: The value in that. It also, frankly, means that a lot of builders, including me, have seen failures by not doing it the right way. And we've.

00:02:24:02 - 00:02:25:27
Matt Risinger: Had to your to your next.

00:02:25:27 - 00:02:29:05
Matt Risinger: Point, we've had comfort, complaints, with houses. And I.

00:02:29:05 - 00:02:31:18
Matt Risinger: Think the more high performance.

00:02:31:21 - 00:02:33:08
Matt Risinger: The home you build.

00:02:33:10 - 00:02:33:27
Matt Risinger: The more you.

00:02:33:27 - 00:02:40:19
Matt Risinger: Need to frankly, think about your Hvac system. And that's a good thing. I mean, that means that we're going to have smaller systems.

00:02:40:19 - 00:02:40:28
Matt Risinger: We're going to.

00:02:40:28 - 00:02:45:01
Matt Risinger: Have well designed systems. I think also, though, that our our clients have.

00:02:45:01 - 00:02:45:26
Matt Risinger: Bigger comfort.

00:02:45:26 - 00:02:48:23
Matt Risinger: Demands than they did, even a couple of.

00:02:48:23 - 00:02:49:13
Matt Risinger: Years ago.

00:02:49:17 - 00:02:54:03
Matt Risinger: So it's it's an interesting and, kind of fun.

00:02:54:03 - 00:02:55:18
Matt Risinger: New era, because.

00:02:55:20 - 00:02:59:03
Matt Risinger: Not only are we seeing builders there, but we're seeing clients that are willing to.

00:02:59:03 - 00:03:00:00
Matt Risinger: Pay for it.

00:03:00:02 - 00:03:07:15
Matt Risinger: And saying, you know what? I do want this in my house, I want dehumidification, I want fresh air. I want a design system. I want to be able.

00:03:07:15 - 00:03:09:12
Matt Risinger: To control my bedroom separately from.

00:03:09:12 - 00:03:11:02
Matt Risinger: My living room.

00:03:11:05 - 00:03:13:14
Matt Risinger: And so we're seeing.

00:03:13:17 - 00:03:14:01
Matt Risinger: You know, a.

00:03:14:01 - 00:03:15:14
Matt Risinger: Proliferation.

00:03:15:16 - 00:03:17:23
Matt Risinger: Of ductless systems.

00:03:17:25 - 00:03:18:29
Matt Risinger: Or low static pressure.

00:03:18:29 - 00:03:26:07
Matt Risinger: Ducted as well, being used like a house I just completed recently, Sarah, that had a full,

00:03:26:09 - 00:03:26:24
Matt Risinger: Carrier.

00:03:26:24 - 00:03:47:21
Matt Risinger: System in it. We utilized several different types, from what would traditionally be called a mini split to that same technology, but put in a different form factor that goes away in the ceiling like a one way cassette, to high static pressure systems that are using the same.

00:03:47:24 - 00:03:48:27
Matt Risinger: Variable refrigerant.

00:03:48:27 - 00:03:51:02
Matt Risinger: Flow technology back at the.

00:03:51:04 - 00:03:51:22
Matt Risinger: Compressor.

00:03:51:22 - 00:03:52:22
Matt Risinger: Outside.

00:03:52:25 - 00:04:19:19
Sara Gutterman: You know, smart controls, diagnostics and connectivity are really becoming the norm with a lot of these advanced technologies and enabling systems. And we're seeing everything from demand side energy management systems to whole home IQ systems proliferated. So talk about what you're seeing in terms of those advances with respect to Hvac systems. And we give us some examples of these whole host system, whole home systems that you are installing.

00:04:19:19 - 00:04:26:07
Sara Gutterman: And then, you know, if you can kind of, pontificate on the, the benefits for both builders and homeowners, that would.

00:04:26:07 - 00:04:38:18
Matt Risinger: Be like, yeah, for sure. So it's a it's a bigger question. Let me let me start by saying that, there is no one perfect product. These are systems. I have you know, in this house that I built recently.

00:04:38:20 - 00:04:40:00
Matt Risinger: A career,

00:04:40:02 - 00:04:48:10
Matt Risinger: Hvac system where we multiple we use multiple different Hvac components, to make a really high performance Hvac. But the.

00:04:48:10 - 00:04:49:07
Matt Risinger: V part of the.

00:04:49:07 - 00:04:50:13
Matt Risinger: Hvac ventilation.

00:04:50:13 - 00:04:53:08
Matt Risinger: Was from a whole nother company from life breath.

00:04:53:11 - 00:05:00:12
Matt Risinger: And then I also, I'm a big fan of adding the world of the letter D in their Hvac, plus the, in the South. I'm a big.

00:05:00:12 - 00:05:01:17
Matt Risinger: Believer that every home needs.

00:05:01:17 - 00:05:07:03
Matt Risinger: A standalone dehumidifier. So we've got a Santa Fe dehumidifier in the house, all underneath.

00:05:07:03 - 00:05:08:00
Matt Risinger: The Risinger built.

00:05:08:00 - 00:05:08:17
Matt Risinger: Logo that.

00:05:08:17 - 00:05:10:01
Matt Risinger: My customer sees right.

00:05:10:01 - 00:05:12:11
Matt Risinger: As as the, manufacturer.

00:05:12:11 - 00:05:13:11
Matt Risinger: Or the maker of the.

00:05:13:11 - 00:05:15:15
Matt Risinger: House. But it's it's a lot of.

00:05:15:15 - 00:05:16:24
Matt Risinger: Different parts and components.

00:05:16:24 - 00:05:22:26
Matt Risinger: And then when it comes to controls, I'm really excited to see that a lot of manufacturers have given.

00:05:22:28 - 00:05:24:07
Matt Risinger: Really good controls.

00:05:24:07 - 00:05:28:25
Matt Risinger: And are talking a lot about it more these days, which is kind of fun.

00:05:28:27 - 00:05:54:23
Sara Gutterman: Now we have a lot more choices now with respect to ductless and flexible HPC systems than we've ever had before, and those are particularly important for retrofit projects or projects where space architecture, or perhaps preservation rules limit the ability to design and traditional duct work. Let's talk a little bit more about some of the innovations that you're seeing along those lines.

00:05:54:26 - 00:06:00:20
Sara Gutterman: That are streamlining Hvac, design and installation.

00:06:00:23 - 00:06:22:12
Matt Risinger: Douglas is really a fascinating technology because there's so many forms. We've got high mount walls, we've got floor consoles, we've got ceiling cassettes. And as I mentioned, we can do ducted units as well out of what we traditionally call a mini split. So in my personal house I have a ducted mini split that just controls, my master bedroom.

00:06:22:12 - 00:06:27:09
Matt Risinger: So I've got just this one little section. So now if I want to sleep at 67.

00:06:27:09 - 00:06:28:09
Matt Risinger: But have the rest of my.

00:06:28:09 - 00:06:41:28
Matt Risinger: House at 72, I'm good to go. The other benefit of all these different types of, things, like one way concerts, like, I've got my kitchen is the can be very seamless. You know, I'm shocked by how many.

00:06:41:28 - 00:06:44:13
Matt Risinger: People come over to my house for a party.

00:06:44:16 - 00:06:47:26
Matt Risinger: And they have no idea that that small,

00:06:47:28 - 00:06:49:07
Matt Risinger: Rectangular grill on the.

00:06:49:07 - 00:06:52:14
Matt Risinger: Ceiling is actually a one way concert.

00:06:52:17 - 00:06:55:15
Matt Risinger: Carrier makes these a lot of other manufacturers make these, too.

00:06:55:16 - 00:07:01:20
Matt Risinger: There are lots of different formats and functions they can fit between standard and I Joyce.

00:07:01:23 - 00:07:05:08
Matt Risinger: So they're really nice and tight or in unconventional spaces.

00:07:05:08 - 00:07:06:02
Matt Risinger: In my case.

00:07:06:05 - 00:07:08:20
Matt Risinger: I don't have the room for deaf work in there.

00:07:08:22 - 00:07:11:12
Matt Risinger: And my Hvac designer, which was positive energy.

00:07:11:12 - 00:07:11:25
Matt Risinger: Here and.

00:07:12:01 - 00:07:14:27
Matt Risinger: Awesome that I use was like, hey, what about a one way.

00:07:14:27 - 00:07:17:09
Matt Risinger: Cassette right here? This is the perfect choice.

00:07:17:12 - 00:07:18:01
Matt Risinger: This will cool.

00:07:18:01 - 00:07:20:23
Matt Risinger: This whole area or heat this whole area.

00:07:20:25 - 00:07:21:26
Matt Risinger: And it's,

00:07:21:29 - 00:07:24:09
Matt Risinger: It's extremely unobtrusive.

00:07:24:11 - 00:07:27:02
Matt Risinger: The other thing is there really? Well, especially Ductless.

00:07:27:04 - 00:07:32:15
Matt Risinger: Is really well suited for historic homes and preservation projects where adding ductwork.

00:07:32:18 - 00:07:33:20
Matt Risinger: Might compromise.

00:07:33:20 - 00:07:35:20
Matt Risinger: The architectural integrity.

00:07:35:22 - 00:07:37:01
Matt Risinger: Or possibly violate.

00:07:37:05 - 00:07:39:03
Matt Risinger: Restoration guidelines for, for a.

00:07:39:06 - 00:07:44:00
Matt Risinger: Project. So having options on ductless is a really big deal. The one thing you.

00:07:44:00 - 00:07:44:27
Matt Risinger: Do want to remember.

00:07:44:27 - 00:07:46:12
Matt Risinger: Though, on Ductless that I always caution.

00:07:46:12 - 00:07:47:15
Matt Risinger: People is, remember, you don't.

00:07:47:15 - 00:07:54:19
Matt Risinger: Get as good of filtration, on a ductless system. So you need to think about that. Am I going to have another section of house that's going to be a.

00:07:54:19 - 00:07:56:20
Matt Risinger: Medium or a high static pressure, that I can.

00:07:56:20 - 00:07:57:02
Matt Risinger: Use a.

00:07:57:02 - 00:07:58:06
Matt Risinger: Standard filter.

00:07:58:13 - 00:08:05:27
Matt Risinger: And do some good filtration. So I want to think about some standalone filtration. And then lastly, I find this.

00:08:05:27 - 00:08:07:03
Matt Risinger: Across the board in.

00:08:07:03 - 00:08:09:18
Matt Risinger: General houses that that.

00:08:09:20 - 00:08:10:19
Matt Risinger: Are utilizing.

00:08:10:19 - 00:08:13:16
Matt Risinger: Nothing but many splits. They typically don't.

00:08:13:16 - 00:08:14:02
Matt Risinger: Do a great.

00:08:14:02 - 00:08:16:01
Matt Risinger: Job of dehumidification. So we need to think.

00:08:16:01 - 00:08:16:22
Matt Risinger: About separate.

00:08:16:22 - 00:08:18:17
Matt Risinger: Dehumidification. And I do.

00:08:18:17 - 00:08:19:19
Matt Risinger: That regardless of whether.

00:08:19:19 - 00:08:24:21
Matt Risinger: The whole house is on a, ductless or not, because I feel like in in the South.

00:08:24:23 - 00:08:27:20
Matt Risinger: Every house really needs a separate dehumidification system.

00:08:27:24 - 00:09:00:03
Sara Gutterman: So I, I have a two part question. First, we're seeing that the shift toward electric homes is accelerating. So how do you see advanced Hvac technologies, particularly heat palms and Douglas systems, helping builders deliver both performance and sustainability? And then the second part of that question is, how can builders use advanced Hvac systems and other enabling technologies to reduce the total cost of homeownership for their clients, even beyond just energy savings?

00:09:00:06 - 00:09:09:26
Matt Risinger: Let me go back to one, misconception. I think that's still common that I keep thinking is gone, but is not. When people think heat pumps for heating, they think about.

00:09:09:26 - 00:09:12:15
Matt Risinger: Cold air coming out of their registers.

00:09:12:17 - 00:09:18:09
Matt Risinger: And in fact, I did, too, until, you know, 15 or 20 years ago when I started using, heat.

00:09:18:09 - 00:09:20:21
Matt Risinger: Pumps for heating and realized.

00:09:20:21 - 00:09:21:03
Matt Risinger: The new.

00:09:21:03 - 00:09:21:23
Matt Risinger: Generation.

00:09:21:23 - 00:09:23:01
Matt Risinger: Of heat pump technology.

00:09:23:01 - 00:09:27:04
Matt Risinger: Carrier and other manufacturers, they deliver.

00:09:27:07 - 00:09:27:21
Matt Risinger: Much.

00:09:27:21 - 00:09:29:10
Matt Risinger: Much hotter air than we had.

00:09:29:10 - 00:09:30:12
Matt Risinger: In the 80s and 90s.

00:09:30:12 - 00:09:30:22
Matt Risinger: Or even.

00:09:30:22 - 00:09:36:12
Matt Risinger: 70s. So if you grew up in a cold climate and you had a heat pump, your parents put one in. A lot of.

00:09:36:12 - 00:09:37:27
Matt Risinger: Times they were underneath.

00:09:37:27 - 00:09:38:08
Matt Risinger: Body.

00:09:38:08 - 00:09:40:12
Matt Risinger: Temperature. You know, they were blown out air. That was, let's.

00:09:40:12 - 00:09:40:18
Matt Risinger: Say.

00:09:40:19 - 00:09:42:02
Matt Risinger: 85 degrees.

00:09:42:05 - 00:09:42:20
Matt Risinger: Which felt.

00:09:42:20 - 00:09:45:25
Matt Risinger: Cold to your hand as you put your hand up by the register, because.

00:09:45:25 - 00:10:03:20
Matt Risinger: Your body's at 98.6. Right. So 85 felt cold to you. They were raising the temperature, but it was doing it in a, in a way that felt cold to you. Well, today they're putting out typically in the, 100 and tens, 115 degree temperatures. So they feel hot.

00:10:03:20 - 00:10:05:13
Matt Risinger: Coming out of the register.

00:10:05:15 - 00:10:07:13
Matt Risinger: So it's a whole different breed.

00:10:07:15 - 00:10:09:00
Matt Risinger: And they're incredibly.

00:10:09:00 - 00:10:13:06
Matt Risinger: Efficient. And in particular, like several.

00:10:13:06 - 00:10:14:07
Matt Risinger: Manufacturers have heat.

00:10:14:07 - 00:10:20:22
Matt Risinger: Pumps that give 100% heating capacity down to minus five Fahrenheit outside. So this is a whole.

00:10:20:22 - 00:10:21:21
Matt Risinger: New generation of.

00:10:21:21 - 00:10:29:12
Matt Risinger: Technology that's, incredibly, efficient and also puts out heat as if you.

00:10:29:12 - 00:10:30:19
Matt Risinger: Had a gas furnace.

00:10:30:21 - 00:10:33:28
Matt Risinger: And then, of course, we've got a whole these days, too. We've got as we.

00:10:33:28 - 00:10:35:26
Matt Risinger: Think about green, we're on green builder media.

00:10:35:26 - 00:10:42:16
Matt Risinger: Right. We've got a whole nother level of of, Freon systems.

00:10:42:18 - 00:10:46:04
Matt Risinger: For instance, carriers pure on advance, which is 454.

00:10:46:04 - 00:10:47:05
Matt Risinger: B has a.

00:10:47:05 - 00:10:48:18
Matt Risinger: Much lower GWP.

00:10:48:18 - 00:10:50:16
Matt Risinger: Than, than we've had in the past.

00:10:50:22 - 00:10:54:14
Matt Risinger: You know, that's really going to reduce your environmental impact.

00:10:54:17 - 00:10:58:06
Matt Risinger: And there's a bunch of other technology, out.

00:10:58:06 - 00:10:58:22
Matt Risinger: There when.

00:10:58:22 - 00:11:03:17
Matt Risinger: It comes to heat pumps, that I think people just don't realize. This isn't the same stuff that.

00:11:03:17 - 00:11:06:08
Matt Risinger: We were using 20, 30 years ago.

00:11:06:10 - 00:11:15:08
Sara Gutterman: Now, you've been at the forefront of building science for years. What advice would you give to builders who want to stay ahead on the Hvac innovation curve?

00:11:15:11 - 00:11:16:08
Matt Risinger: The biggest.

00:11:16:10 - 00:11:17:15
Matt Risinger: Driver when it.

00:11:17:15 - 00:11:31:05
Matt Risinger: Comes to innovation is making sure that you know what your clients are looking for and and making sure that you can meet those needs. And as I mentioned, at the kind of top of our, session, clients.

00:11:31:05 - 00:11:31:16
Matt Risinger: Are really.

00:11:31:16 - 00:11:37:00
Matt Risinger: Interested in health. And you mentioned it too. You know, I think Covid really changed that. And people want to know.

00:11:37:00 - 00:11:38:15
Matt Risinger: What their options are out there when it.

00:11:38:15 - 00:11:50:11
Matt Risinger: Comes to building a healthy home with good indoor air quality. So as builders, we need to be able to provide that. We need to say, hey, here's here's the system that we currently have, priced in for you.

00:11:50:14 - 00:11:51:12
Matt Risinger: But if you're interested in.

00:11:51:12 - 00:11:51:29
Matt Risinger: Going a.

00:11:51:29 - 00:11:54:08
Matt Risinger: Step further, you know, for instance.

00:11:54:10 - 00:11:58:23
Matt Risinger: Doing a multi system, you know, having this.

00:11:58:23 - 00:11:59:19
Matt Risinger: Bedroom have its.

00:11:59:19 - 00:12:03:26
Matt Risinger: Own thermostat with its own system, you know, we can.

00:12:03:26 - 00:12:04:19
Matt Risinger: Do that for you.

00:12:04:19 - 00:12:08:21
Matt Risinger: And let me tell you the benefits of that. And let me give you some pricing on that so we can see if that's.

00:12:08:21 - 00:12:09:05
Matt Risinger: Something you're.

00:12:09:05 - 00:12:12:22
Matt Risinger: Interested in. I think builders will be surprised that when they go.

00:12:12:22 - 00:12:13:15
Matt Risinger: Down this nerdy.

00:12:13:15 - 00:12:19:09
Matt Risinger: Pathway, people really want it. But if we don't tell them about it, they're going to move in and two years.

00:12:19:09 - 00:12:20:20
Matt Risinger: Later they're going to see their friend that.

00:12:20:20 - 00:12:28:24
Matt Risinger: Has that and go, why didn't you tell me that was an option? So I think that, builders have this kind of built in. Oh, I don't want to spin. I don't want to.

00:12:28:26 - 00:12:30:15
Matt Risinger: Offer things that are going to cost.

00:12:30:15 - 00:12:31:22
Matt Risinger: More money because.

00:12:31:27 - 00:12:33:03
Matt Risinger: Because I'm worried that they're going.

00:12:33:03 - 00:12:34:17
Matt Risinger: To think that I'm this expensive.

00:12:34:17 - 00:12:36:07
Matt Risinger: Builder, that we're going to raise.

00:12:36:07 - 00:12:38:12
Matt Risinger: Them the price tag. Too much.

00:12:38:14 - 00:12:39:11
Matt Risinger: But in reality.

00:12:39:11 - 00:12:41:12
Matt Risinger: When it comes to good Hvac systems.

00:12:41:12 - 00:12:42:02
Matt Risinger: Everybody.

00:12:42:02 - 00:12:45:06
Matt Risinger: Wins. You know, a more expensive system means I get.

00:12:45:06 - 00:12:46:20
Matt Risinger: More profit as a builder.

00:12:46:22 - 00:12:48:06
Matt Risinger: But it's not. It's not the main.

00:12:48:06 - 00:12:49:09
Matt Risinger: Benefit for me, the main.

00:12:49:09 - 00:12:50:09
Matt Risinger: Benefit as a client.

00:12:50:09 - 00:12:51:20
Matt Risinger: That it gets a really comfortable.

00:12:51:20 - 00:12:58:18
Matt Risinger: House that gets a really efficient house, and ultimately gets a really healthy house that's going to be healthy for.

00:12:58:18 - 00:13:00:07
Matt Risinger: Them for, for a long time.

00:13:00:07 - 00:13:00:22
Matt Risinger: To come.

00:13:00:28 - 00:13:09:14
Sara Gutterman: Looking five years ahead, what excites you most about where Hvac technology and home performance in general is headed?

00:13:09:16 - 00:13:12:19
Matt Risinger: You know, Sarah, I think the thing that excites me the most is that more and.

00:13:12:19 - 00:13:15:01
Matt Risinger: More builders are realizing.

00:13:15:04 - 00:13:22:22
Matt Risinger: That they need to step up their game when it comes to first the envelope, on the house and really building a good envelope or a tight.

00:13:22:23 - 00:13:24:29
Matt Risinger: Dry enclosure for our.

00:13:24:29 - 00:13:30:02
Matt Risinger: Systems. And then next that the builders are actually designing, and talking to.

00:13:30:02 - 00:13:31:05
Matt Risinger: Manufacturers about.

00:13:31:05 - 00:13:33:08
Matt Risinger: More than just the old school gas.

00:13:33:08 - 00:13:34:06
Matt Risinger: For their system.

00:13:34:06 - 00:13:34:19
Matt Risinger: That we.

00:13:34:19 - 00:13:36:17
Matt Risinger: Put in for years.

00:13:36:19 - 00:13:40:23
Matt Risinger: The amount of technology that's available to us and that's also.

00:13:40:23 - 00:13:42:28
Matt Risinger: Mature and reliable.

00:13:43:01 - 00:13:44:23
Matt Risinger: Is unbelievable. And, you know.

00:13:44:23 - 00:13:46:09
Matt Risinger: I mentioned carrier in this project, but.

00:13:46:09 - 00:13:47:03
Matt Risinger: There's a bunch of other.

00:13:47:03 - 00:13:48:08
Matt Risinger: Manufacturers out there as.

00:13:48:08 - 00:13:51:08
Matt Risinger: Well. So, you know, finding a good.

00:13:51:08 - 00:13:52:11
Matt Risinger: Manufacturer.

00:13:52:13 - 00:13:52:20
Matt Risinger: That.

00:13:52:20 - 00:13:53:27
Matt Risinger: You can partner with.

00:13:54:00 - 00:13:54:13
Matt Risinger: That has a.

00:13:54:13 - 00:13:56:00
Matt Risinger: Good support staff.

00:13:56:03 - 00:13:57:28
Matt Risinger: That can talk to you about the options out.

00:13:57:28 - 00:13:59:27
Matt Risinger: There and also train your.

00:13:59:27 - 00:14:05:26
Matt Risinger: Hvac, techs that you're used to using. Boy, it makes a big difference long term.

00:14:05:26 - 00:14:07:24
Matt Risinger: And I see more and more builders.

00:14:07:26 - 00:14:13:24
Matt Risinger: Signing up for high performance. When it comes to both the envelope and the Hvac system.