High Performance Home Energy Efficiency is Only a Good Start

00:00:01:25 - 00:00:25:08
Mike Collignon: This is session number three of our six virtual seminars. It examines how to consistently optimize five key housing housing user experiences. Now today's seminar is going to be focused on high performance homes. But we're not just going to talk about energy efficiency. The phrase high performance has to be more well-rounded. And we'll dig into ways that you can offer more to your customers.

00:00:25:08 - 00:00:43:11
Mike Collignon: But before we get started, I wanted to make sure to call out the fact that this is Women in Construction Week. So congratulations to all of you women out there. My name is Mike Collignon and I am the housing 2.0 Program Manager. Now, if at any point you have questions, please don't hesitate to reach out to me via the chat box or by email.

00:00:43:13 - 00:01:02:06
Mike Collignon: I'm going to put that email address into the chat box in just a little while. Have you met Sam Rankin? He's formerly the chief architect at Doe's Building Technologies office, but now is focused on creating and teaching the content for the housing 2.0 program. That content is based largely on Sam's latest book, housing 2.0 A Disruption Survival Guide.

00:01:02:07 - 00:01:21:08
Mike Collignon: The full program is established to help empower you, our building professionals, to design and construct higher performance, healthier, more sustainable homes at a fraction of the cost. Sam's going to lead today's seminar, and he's also going to address your questions at the end. Now, before we get started, I wanted to tell you a little bit more about our sponsors.

00:01:21:09 - 00:01:47:21
Mike Collignon: The first is Schneider Electric, who is driving the digital transformation of modern homes with smart and sustainable energy solutions for ultimate comfort and energy efficiency. They're connected home ecosystem of smart energy management solutions provides digital control of energy use throughout a home from the grid via their smart electrical panel to their connected wiring devices. We're going to hear a little more about Schneider Electric today from J.D. Gill, so he's going to join us a little bit later.

00:01:47:24 - 00:02:14:03
Mike Collignon: Next we have solar. They are a leading PV module manufacturer and energy storage system integrator. The company has deployed approximately 110GW of their Eagle modules in 160 countries globally, including more than 17GW right here in the United States. Eagle storage brings together the best energy storage technology for turnkey hardware and energy storage services. We also have Mitsubishi Electric.

00:02:14:04 - 00:02:39:24
Mike Collignon: Mitsubishi Electric promote sustainable building through the electrification of residential and commercial heating and cooling products. Their mission is to advance technologies the increased energy efficiency and eliminate dependance on fossil fuels. And finally, we have Panasonic Healthy Indoor Living Solutions. They're helping builders across the country differentiate themselves with powerful, code compliant and cost effective indoor air quality solutions that provide a safer environment for home buyers.

00:02:40:01 - 00:03:02:25
Mike Collignon: Now, during the course of today's presentation, you can submit questions for Sam. Just use that questions box inside the Go to Webinar Control panel. I'll review those questions and pose them to Sam after his presentation. All right. Now it's time to hand it over to a guy who only deals with high performance Mr. Sam Raskin.

00:03:02:28 - 00:03:28:08
Sam Rashkin: Hey, thank you so much, Mike, and welcome, everyone. And today what we're going to do is talk about high performance homes. Efficiency is only a good start. Like Mike, I'm incredibly grateful to our great array of sponsors. They make this unique program possible and we're really happy to bring this to the industry. So today is our third webinar in our series this year.

00:03:28:08 - 00:03:56:27
Sam Rashkin: And we're going to talk about, again high performance homes. The outline is first I'd like to give a context for housing 2.0. Why what and how. Then jump into our topic for today High Performance Homes. We'll start with what we know with certainty. Then go on to the key building blocks that really comprise high performance. And then I want to talk about five imperatives that relate to one of the key building blocks enclosure.

00:03:57:00 - 00:04:19:29
Sam Rashkin: Then bring in J.D. to talk about innovation from Snyder Electric. Then we'll move on to how we do this faster, better and cheaper and very critical to that as a compliment. How we translate faster, better, cheaper. Like always, we always wrap up with open time for discussion at the end, for any questions or discussion on this topic or anything related.

00:04:20:00 - 00:04:51:15
Sam Rashkin: So let's move in right now with why, what and how for housing 2.0 and the driving background data for this program. That really speaks to what makes us excited about bringing this to you is this statistic that when you look at where we spend our time every day, an extensive research surveying households, we find between the residents work, dining, outdoors, vehicle, other indoor locations.

00:04:51:15 - 00:05:17:27
Sam Rashkin: We spend about 70% of our time almost in our homes. So home is where life happens. And post-Covid, I would assume we're probably getting closer to 75% of the time every day where we live. So home is a truly the ultimate consumer product. Which leads us to the Wi-Fi housing 2.0, our core purpose why we exist, our homes where life happens better.

00:05:18:02 - 00:05:49:23
Sam Rashkin: So that's the why. The what is basically a stool that's comprised of five experiences. And if I only have the home performance experience I want to talk about today, honestly, this stool has no chance of standing. So the housing user experience optimization really entails a framework that has five key strategies community design, performance, quality, and sales. And within those five strategies, we have 160 best practices.

00:05:49:23 - 00:06:17:24
Sam Rashkin: And the key about any framework is it's a way of having a process so you can consistently deliver a desired outcome, in this case, a better user experience for lower cost. Now we do. This is again a process that comes from this framework. And the best way to understand the process is compare it. In contrast to the first cost business model that drives most of the industry.

00:06:17:24 - 00:06:40:04
Sam Rashkin: So the housing 2.0 business model on the right versus costs and the left and the first cost business model will try to keep our costs as low as possible, investing in experts and special features. In contrast, the first part of the process with housing 2.0 is optimized user experience by investing in experts and special features that may cost more.

00:06:40:10 - 00:07:09:15
Sam Rashkin: But if it's a sure thing in terms of a transformative user experience, it's an incredible investment. Then the key part is the next step, which is compared to the cost of material, labor, labor, marketing and sales. With housing 2.0, we optimize value every step of the way. We're these special optimization lenses that get the most at a simple, lean quality, integrated systems and mass customization.

00:07:09:15 - 00:07:36:06
Sam Rashkin: All these are discussed at length in the housing 2.0 program. And then that leads to lower cost cost savings with better value experiences and owner cost savings. And the net is, from our calculations, about 30 to 70% of the cost of the home can be driven toward savings and added value. And so the last step is to translate that value with sales and service for better homes at lower cost.

00:07:36:06 - 00:08:07:17
Sam Rashkin: And this is the kind of the housing 2.03000ft look. And I love empirical results that validate so much of what we teach. One example wash construction just by optimizing one of the experiences. The design was able, after building the first building in a multifamily project, then build the second with 24% lower cost, just with design optimization. Now we talk about these in the more detailed housing 2.0 workshops.

00:08:07:20 - 00:08:30:14
Sam Rashkin: And the key thing is you have a resource that we recommend, the housing 2.0 book, a Disruption Survival Guide. Even my new grandson's in chapter five. So we're excited, humming along the barcode and the writes. Great way for you to kind of take a screen image and be able to get direct, direct access to the book. So let's jump right in with today's topic.

00:08:30:14 - 00:09:05:02
Sam Rashkin: What we know is certainty about high performance homes. And I'm going to talk about three key things. We know one, they've left the station to the entail greater risk that have to be managed. Three future readiness of these homes and really ensuring they stand the test of time is tied to also addressing hard trends. So let's look at each of these, starting with the high performance left the station and the first indication, just the Herz metrics, which are always compelling.

00:09:05:05 - 00:09:39:00
Sam Rashkin: The last full year data was 2023. Cumulatively, 3.6 million Herz ratings were completed, mostly predominantly in single family attached and detached homes, and the Herbert Herz ratings in 2023 were 338,000 homes. Roughly. This is a typo 2022, and the average Herz index was about 58. So what we know basically is that already the industry is building way ahead of the average.

00:09:39:01 - 00:10:12:06
Sam Rashkin: Iirc, Herz index home about 70 to 80. So the industry is already moving way beyond code. But the next indicator is where the codes themselves are going. If we track the energy use index as a metric on the vertical axis pegged to 1975 to 100, and look how far codes have gone, particularly starting with the IOC codes in 2006, we see about 40 to 60% increase in codes as we've gotten to 2 to 12 through 2021, Iirc.

00:10:12:09 - 00:10:36:19
Sam Rashkin: And I'll submit by the time we get to 2015, 2018 and 2021, I seek really looking at zero energy ready enclosures. And one of the reasons I know is this was a platform used at Doe for the Zero Energy Ready Home program was a 2015 ICC. It's a really strong code. The other way we know is just other codes happening around the country.

00:10:36:20 - 00:10:59:18
Sam Rashkin: There are about seven states that are in process or already implementing zero energy codes. And we have another ten states or so that are adopting the 2015 and higher ICC codes, which again, or a platform for zero. Ready. The other way we know is just voluntary certifications. Already there are over 2.5 million Energy Star certified homes which are well on your way getting to zero ready.

00:10:59:18 - 00:11:35:17
Sam Rashkin: And then the Zero Energy Ready Home program has grown for all zero energy ready and Zero energy home certifications have grown 440% in single family homes since 2020. This is an inventory of all the certifications in the US and Canada for Zero energy and zero energy ready certifications done by the Environmental Energy Environmental Building Alliance. And again, it's stunning just again, how quickly and exponentially certifications even in this space zero and zero radio growing.

00:11:35:19 - 00:12:06:09
Sam Rashkin: And then we have the 45 L tax credit. Now this is finally a ten year lock that the housing industry can finally bank on for substantial tax credits. And the zero energy ready home space. That's 5000 for single family homes and and also for multifamily with prevailing wage construction for multi-family homes. It's $1,000 for zero ready and Energy Star gets $2,500 and 500, respectively, for single family and multifamily.

00:12:06:16 - 00:12:45:16
Sam Rashkin: And even manufactured houses get $2,500 for a new star HUD codon that certified to Energy Star. So these are locked in and are going to drive tremendous increases in all these programs. And then, of course, we're looking at mainstream builders and the and the directions that they're signaling, particularly the leaders in the industry. See here the abuses announcing they've gone to go to 100% all zero energy ready home certification for all the single family homes by 2025, and the several other large national builders that are following this league.

00:12:45:19 - 00:13:12:06
Sam Rashkin: In addition, in the code space, Clayton is committed to building all their manufactured homes to deal with the energy ready home by the end of last year, and there will move to moving in that direction. So when you see even the lowest cost segment of the market based housing portion of the industry going 100% zero ready, a very big signal where the industry is gone.

00:13:12:08 - 00:13:47:21
Sam Rashkin: And if nothing else, you know, I'm a big user experience, believer that that's that that will always drive where products will go. And when you look at the superior user experience in advanced products that are moving towards sustainability, it's it's pretty impressive in terms of what's happening with electric vehicles. You know, the companies, the design are important, but also the amazing performance improvements, ultra low fuel fuel bills, ultra comfortable, ultra convenient, ultra low maintenance, ultra safe, superior acceleration and handling.

00:13:47:23 - 00:14:11:15
Sam Rashkin: These are experiences people want when they drive a car, particularly not having a fuel card. A gas station is a huge benefit overnight. Just letting our cars charge at zero burden and and kind of inconvenience. So it's amazing what happens in the car space. We believe the same thing has to happen because of the superior user experience in the home space.

00:14:11:15 - 00:14:39:07
Sam Rashkin: As we move to zero electric homes, we'll have great communities and great design that we advocate with housing 2.0, but also great performance in these times that will blow away what we've been building up to this date. Ultra low energy bills. Ultra comfortable. Ultra convenient, smart, ultra low maintenance, ultra safe and superior health protection and resilience. We believe this package of experiences will drive the market.

00:14:39:09 - 00:15:07:14
Sam Rashkin: So that's that's why we believe high performance has left the station. But in the process we have in this in the greater risk, come along for the ride and manage them. So we go from a low performance enclosure to a high performance enclosure. We have more insulation and more air sealing. So that means is in a low performance enclosure, you have more thermal and airflow compared to much reduced thermal and airflow in a high performance enclosure.

00:15:07:17 - 00:15:32:21
Sam Rashkin: And that makes a difference also in terms of what happens inside the assembly, because now that less thermal flow is getting to the cold side of the assembly and less airflow is getting through to the cold side of the assembly, we have colder surfaces on the inside face of the cold side surface, so we have greater risk that all this kind of drives.

00:15:32:21 - 00:15:55:14
Sam Rashkin: The first is the moisture risk. We have more wedding potential because we have a cul de surface and less driving potential because we have less than the flow getting to that cold surface. So we just have to be bulletproof at keeping moisture out and stopping airflow that can carry moisture vapor. Then on the comfort side, when we have ultra low loads, everything changes.

00:15:55:15 - 00:16:29:00
Sam Rashkin: You have reduced airflow going through the duct systems. In an industry that has not spent a lot of attention in rigor, building good airflow systems, duct systems. Second, we have much shorter cycles the ultra low loads so the corals don't get cold as long and don't provide as much capability. And we relied on the accidental DNA byproduct of air conditioning to provide the bulk, if not all, of the needed for latent loads.

00:16:29:00 - 00:16:49:10
Sam Rashkin: So the shorter cycles create a whole different situation. And lastly, we have much, much longer swing season. So in the front end, we may start cooling much later in the year and it may stop much earlier in the year. So it may have a month or two on the front and back end where we have no air conditioning.

00:16:49:11 - 00:17:25:19
Sam Rashkin: Again, with the accidental dehumidifier in able to address the latent loads. So we really have to manage comfort and high performance and closures. And lastly, with less dilution of contaminants happening with less air leakage, we have to manage and protect health inside these homes at a higher level. So all these things have to be managed. And the last part I want to talk about is future readiness and the hard trends that really will tell us what has to be done if we're going to build high performance homes that we expect to stand the test of time, what do we do?

00:17:25:20 - 00:17:52:13
Sam Rashkin: And we know without any doubt that the data, in terms of greater frequency and magnitude of disasters is growing exponentially. So we have to manage more disaster risk. We know that water shortages are happening and becoming far more serious, just again, a much more exponential rate. So we have to address water shortages in regions that are prone to drought.

00:17:52:13 - 00:18:14:03
Sam Rashkin: And we have to also address the fact that we're moving to electrification. And we must have solutions so that homes can adapt. And either if they're not constructed all electric, be able to go that direction with minimum cost burden and disruption. So these are the ways that we can be future ready. We know where the future is going.

00:18:14:05 - 00:18:46:27
Sam Rashkin: So this informs us about the key building blocks that really define high performance and why performance again, is high performance forms look better. It's just a superior user experience. So what do we and how do we get there? First step one is we optimized, efficient and smart. When a business are so glad that Snyder Electric's here today is really speak about their amazing innovation in the space of really integrating smart capabilities and homes at an incredibly heightened level.

00:18:46:27 - 00:19:15:02
Sam Rashkin: But we have to optimize efficient and smart across the entire set of components. One is enclosure, the other is equipment, and the other is all the components in terms of appliances and lighting that are in the home. So all all the various features that have to be efficient and smart. Second, we have to manage risks. And the three that we just talked about were moisture, comfort and indoor quality.

00:19:15:02 - 00:19:39:09
Sam Rashkin: And so these aren't extra credit. You have to be absolutely diligent managing but not hard to do. But you can no longer ignore ignore them. And finally, the third last step is to be future ready again in lockstep with the hard trends. You want to be disaster ready, water efficient in regions that are prone to water shortages. And we want to be electric ready if we're not all electric right now.

00:19:39:12 - 00:20:19:15
Sam Rashkin: So this is very simply just following what, you know, the risk factors, where the industry is going and just being efficient and smart. Now, this leads me to coming up with a definition for high performance homes. I can't find any of that work for me. So the one I come up with is residents constructed with smart enclosure assemblies, systems and components that ensure efficiency, durability, comfort, health, resilience, water conservation, and electric readiness far more all encompassing than any definition that's probably out there right now, but I believe is critical.

00:20:19:15 - 00:20:39:03
Sam Rashkin: If you're going to address all the key building blocks and a sentence that usually follows the definition that I've come up with. It's great to have a beautiful home, but it's just as critical to have a high performance home that lives less and works better. So I'll submit this definition to the industry as one we should be using.

00:20:39:06 - 00:21:07:17
Sam Rashkin: So when we go to housing 2.0, we're in the performance workshops and we we look at what is the entire framework for how we optimize performance. We always use the same basic layout of why. What is the purpose, why this experience is so essential, what how do we optimize it and how what strategies get us there. So normally in a housing 2.0 workshop, the why for performance is that protection matters.

00:21:07:19 - 00:21:37:23
Sam Rashkin: Protection from high bills, protection from comfort issues, protection from not maximizing convenience, protection from health issues from water issues, from maintenance and durability. Protection from safety issues and protection from not having a home that will stand the test of time and be sustainable. And this is all that we try to address with a high performance home. The way we do it first is we optimize the enclosure and we do that with comprehensive building science.

00:21:37:28 - 00:22:14:10
Sam Rashkin: Then we optimize operation, and here we do it with efficient and smart. Again, efficient no longer stands alone. It's no longer extra credit to also be smart. It's efficient and smart. The smart trains left the station as well. Then Optimize Health would do that with comprehensive indoor air quality. Optimize water with water efficient strategies. Again, in regions, particularly that are prone to shortages, then we optimize resilience with disaster ready and optimize zero by choosing many of the options that are out in the market today for certifications to get on the path to zero.

00:22:14:12 - 00:22:36:27
Sam Rashkin: So today we're going to focus just on the enclosure and the building science that drives optimized enclosures. Just to give you a hint of what we cover with the larger housing 2.0 framework. So high performance homes, there are five enclosure imperatives that just have to be addressed. And we're going to talk about these. So the five imperatives are one.

00:22:37:04 - 00:23:11:07
Sam Rashkin: You have to optimize moisture flow control. Again, you have so much less drying potential, so much less so much greater wedding potential. We have to keep bulk moisture and vapor flow under control. Second, airflow controls essential in any high performance enclosure. Third is thermal flow control with a comprehensive strategy for all the key factors that affects on the flow, then disaster resistance and a key new imperative that we have to start addressing this productivity.

00:23:11:08 - 00:23:35:07
Sam Rashkin: I look at so much of the complication and detailed ways we build homes today that don't meet the affordability imperative at in terms of the larger industry challenges. We have to be more productive with how we build high performance enclosures. So let's talk about these one at a time. Machine flow control involves again, bulk moisture and vapor flow.

00:23:35:07 - 00:24:01:22
Sam Rashkin: And in terms of bulk moisture we know the basic drivers it's precipitation or snow a form of precipitation, wind driven rain, gravity and both water that falls off the roof, accumulated water that gets on the ground and then the water table below the ground. All these sources of bulk moisture have to be managed and vapor flow mostly it's diffusion and leakage.

00:24:01:23 - 00:24:36:22
Sam Rashkin: Are you two key elements to how you manage vapor flow. And so in bulk moisture control, the essential thing is you've got to be bulletproof. You need a complete system. The roofs, walls, openings, penetrations, foundation and the site all need comprehensive details for water control layers lashing heavy membranes where they apply capillary breaks, water or damp proofing, train tile, fabric filters and slope to use gravity to carry water away from the from the site.

00:24:36:22 - 00:25:03:13
Sam Rashkin: And also I should mention from the roof. I do get concerned as I see more and more flat roofs being introduced into the architectural design esthetic, and I know that functional roof is shed, whether slopes or an asset. But anyway, this is a complete system and the concept of flashing is pretty basic, and it's amazing how often we get the details that make it work because we don't go back to the basics.

00:25:03:13 - 00:25:34:10
Sam Rashkin: So I asked you as a test right now to flash this concept of a structure. Hopefully you would know what to do, which you start at the bottom and you put your first water barrier layer flashing. And the key thing you can't forget at the bottom you need that little angle piece to create capillary break. If it's flat up against the surface and water can look up, it's falling down behind the flashing and undermine its purpose.

00:25:34:10 - 00:25:52:25
Sam Rashkin: So this is the key thing. You start at the bottom and you do your first piece to look and attach to the next piece. Then you put the next in shingle fashion to that piece so it can attach to the next piece. Then you shingle up to the next piece, and on the back side of the piece, you have a piece that starts doing the same thing.

00:25:53:02 - 00:26:15:18
Sam Rashkin: When you have a top, you have to have it capped again with the capillary breaks. And if you do all this, amazing things happen watersheds and there's no water issues. And the amazing shortcuts I keep observing in the field will drive me crazy. We have no wiggle room, we have no grace period. We have to manage bulk moisture.

00:26:15:18 - 00:26:37:04
Sam Rashkin: We need comprehensive details. So when you look at details and ones that we do and we see, you know, all the CAD drawings, they're all done with the same basic strategy shingle fashion and then the flashing to protect and again all the key details that manage water flow. That's what we do. And so we can look at something like the window flash in detail.

00:26:37:08 - 00:26:58:03
Sam Rashkin: And what we do in this case is we have house wrap. We cut it around the window and we fall in the flaps against the jams, and we have a flap at the top that we cut on an angle and lift up so we can insert a piece of drip cap flashing. So any water that falls off the weather barrier will flow over the window and down.

00:26:58:03 - 00:27:28:05
Sam Rashkin: So that's what we do on the front end okay. Now when we go to the next step what we're going to do is first put on the bottom pan flashing, then on the sides we're going to have the jam flashing tape over the bottom and shingle fashion. And lastly right up against the drip cap flashing we're going to put the top head cape, go against that and then we'll put down the flap from the house, wrap over that whole assembly.

00:27:28:08 - 00:27:52:14
Sam Rashkin: And we have a completely shingled fashioned water drainage assembly on the outside of the home. Now the key detail that will sometimes be forgotten when we attach the window, we will seal it to the frame. But we have to remember to leave the bottom free. So with all the water that may collect at the bottom has a path out.

00:27:52:15 - 00:28:19:05
Sam Rashkin: So again, all these details are applying the same principles over and over wherever you're flashing or whether barriers always shingle fashion making sure water has a path out and then you just don't get into any issues. The key challenge we need to know with older homes built maybe 2000, 2005 and earlier is an incredibly high percentage of homes don't have pan flashing.

00:28:19:05 - 00:28:50:28
Sam Rashkin: So I would submit everything built before two, maybe 80, 90% of homes to have paint flashing, 100% of windows leak. So this kind of infrared image revealing the water leakage behind the window is a problem. If we want to come back and start retrofitting this home with wall insulation, because we can't we can't make that surface colder when it's getting wet and therefore create conditions where now we can lead to moisture damage, mold issues that weren't happening maybe in the first place.

00:28:51:00 - 00:29:29:03
Sam Rashkin: We have to, with existing homes, almost pull the entire cladding system and add control layers. And that's a whole other topic how we do that. But you see why new construction has a huge advantage. Because it can do control, because we can effectively manage the moisture. If we do the bulk moisture control details the right way. And we'll talk about a few of these, you know, you know, we can't do stupid things like leave out a 5 or $6 piece of kick out flashing at the bottom of where roof intersects a wall, because the water running down the edge will just accumulate and create moisture risk.

00:29:29:03 - 00:29:58:24
Sam Rashkin: So we do that simple detail. We deflect the water away from the wall and we manage the risk. Similarly, with the exposed edges of the roof sheathing we want to have, we want to have drip edge flashing at the edges. And that kick out flashing. We want drip edge flashing at the edges, so that again you have that last place for water to fall, that drain away from the control layer, which is the roof underlayment.

00:29:58:24 - 00:30:28:24
Sam Rashkin: And notice how the edge flashing has a slight bends again to create a capillary break. So we don't whip water up behind them. We're always doing the same details the same way. A big thing for capillary breaks on siding is putting inferring over the underlayment not meant to limit the weather resistant barrier. So we have an air gap that creates positive drainage, and the water that gets behind 100% of cladding has a place to go.

00:30:28:26 - 00:30:52:00
Sam Rashkin: The one forgivable cladding material that you can get away without the air gap tends to be vinyl siding, which is the lowest cost siding. People have many issues with using plastics and petroleum based products, and statics may be with that siding, but it does drain without the air gap. But almost any other cladding you want to have the air gap.

00:30:52:00 - 00:31:22:05
Sam Rashkin: And notice on the right you see a low cost way of doing cladding, which is using foam strips. You only need about a quarter inch to create. Enough depressurization for the water to drain down behind the cladding, and when vapor flow control comes in, we have to recognize the primary culprit is not diffusion, it's airlift. It's the most critical strategy for how you manage vapor flow issues.

00:31:22:08 - 00:31:49:01
Sam Rashkin: So in terms of air leakage versus diffusion, if we take a four by eight piece of drywall and then we put a one inch hole in it, the outcome in terms of entire moisture flow over it, complete air conditioning seasons spring to fall. It goes up from three quarters of quartz border without a hole to seven quarts, with a hole for ten times greater vapor flow.

00:31:49:07 - 00:32:10:29
Sam Rashkin: With a small amount of Liege. Now in a cold climate, it gets even worse. It goes up from a third of a court of water over entire heating season in winter to 30 quarts. If there is a one inch hole or a hundred times greater vapor flow. And that's also probably where we have the greatest risk of condensation issues and Worcester issues and cold climates.

00:32:11:00 - 00:32:42:09
Sam Rashkin: So you just see how militant and effective and and just diligent we have to be about all managing all these air leakage challenges and all the book moisture control details to really then be incredibly protected from these risk factors. Now, air leakage is also critical for energy loss. You can see this comparison of how much energy loss in cold climates is attributed to air leaks, windows and doors, ceiling and walls.

00:32:42:12 - 00:33:14:12
Sam Rashkin: You see, air leakage right there is three times greater than either windows and doors, ceiling walls on each or 11%. So there is a big deal when it comes to energy loss, which is why you see the numbers for ACH 50 air leakage targets across the country. And but they vary because in less cold climates, the impacts are less when the delta temperature difference is decreased from outdoors indoors.

00:33:14:13 - 00:33:39:07
Sam Rashkin: So you would have this myriad of choices depending you want to do zero ready to passive House, Energy Star and the IOC codes what you would hit. I'm going to submit that we should just do 1.5 ACH 50 everywhere because one it does minimize energy loss. But but the reason why we should do this more rigorous approach everywhere is it also provides contaminant control.

00:33:39:12 - 00:34:11:21
Sam Rashkin: Now in hot, humid climates, it's just deadly to have higher leakage, allowing all that hot human outdoor air to migrate indoors. Also, in the outdoor air has smog or contaminants, or dust or pollen or odors, or just past. You have all that enhanced control with more air tight buildings. I've lived in leaky buildings. I lived in airtight buildings, and it's unbelievable the difference in amount of pests and odors and other factors with good air tightness and then the greater disaster risk.

00:34:11:27 - 00:34:35:28
Sam Rashkin: If there are wildfires, we don't have to worry about the incredibly dangerous outdoor smoky air infiltrating into the home. If it's incredibly windy storms, tornadoes and hurricanes, we have less structural damage risk if we have more airtight construction. So it's more disaster resilient. And then lastly, it's so readily achievable. A lot of people think 3.0 is 50 is a hard target.

00:34:36:00 - 00:35:00:24
Sam Rashkin: It's just a matter of being again diligent about managing where the key is. The details have to be managed. And so there are three best practices for how we manage airflow control air barriers, air ceiling. And then we mentioned flashing that we do primarily for bulk motion control anyway. And then we have these kinds of lists for air barriers.

00:35:00:24 - 00:35:31:29
Sam Rashkin: This is a basic kind of organization for the thermal bypass checklist that Energy Star Certified home introduced. This is all these details. If we take a look at just one drop ceilings, you'll see just why it's so important to have these kinds of air barriers that can virtually undermine the performance of the thermal control layer. So here's a drop ceiling sketch where you see a condition I've seen so many times where, you know, the framing is done by the framing contractor.

00:35:31:29 - 00:35:54:14
Sam Rashkin: So they do everything all at once, all the framing. And they also build, let's say, a soffit for maybe a drop ceiling in the kitchen or coffer detail. And because once the framing goes in, it's very hard to go back and put in a liner underneath the little attic section in that soffit or against the wall section, it's missing.

00:35:54:19 - 00:36:16:27
Sam Rashkin: So there's no air barrier underneath the attic, insulation in the drop ceiling or against the wall, let's say joining a garage. So what happens if it's really a cold day outside like 20 degrees? It'll be 20 degrees in the attic and or the garage. And if it's 70 degrees indoors, the heat can go right through the drywall, which has very little resistance to heat flow.

00:36:17:01 - 00:36:40:03
Sam Rashkin: And you have fluffy insulation. That's a good thermal barrier, but not an air barrier. You have a pressure gradient where you want to go from more to less, more heat to less heat. So you have effectively almost a convection going through the insulation air pockets because it doesn't have an air barrier. So this space will eventually migrate to some mid-point like 45 degrees.

00:36:40:05 - 00:37:07:13
Sam Rashkin: Now when that happens, you basically have infrared images like this. This is a home in Phoenix in the winter, probably on a, you know, 40 degree day. But the dark colors indicate cold temperatures, the light colors, warm temperatures and infrared images and the the complete thermal bypass that's happening in absence of the air barrier at all. These extensive drop ceiling details creates tremendous amount of cold surfaces.

00:37:07:14 - 00:37:32:16
Sam Rashkin: In the summer it would flip. You'd have hot surfaces from the hot attic migrating through. And so this is one condition that you worry about, but also the airflow that can get through to the cold surface. In the case of, let's say, the wall can maybe again hit a cold surface and create some moisture problems as well. So it undermines the thermal control layer and it can create moisture problems.

00:37:32:16 - 00:38:00:13
Sam Rashkin: So air barriers are really important to put right along wherever the insulation is being installed. You want six sided assemblies where you have airbags on each side of insulation. That itself is not an air barrier. Close off spray foam would be an insulation that's both insulation and air barrier. And these are what it might look like. In the left you have a normal framed drop ceiling and you can see it's running a garage.

00:38:00:15 - 00:38:26:27
Sam Rashkin: So they put the OSB as the air barrier material up against both the garage vertical surface and the attic above on the right you see a drop ceiling, where again it's adjoining garage, and you have the drywall up against the attic above and the garage on the vertical surface and key things. You have to look airtight to complete the assembly.

00:38:27:00 - 00:38:49:09
Sam Rashkin: This is the air sealing checklist that we normally look at is penetrations, cracks, geometry. I'm not going to walk you through all these, but you know, there's a you know, just it's a matter of keeping track of all these. Features that create air leakage and then just selling them appropriately, either with caulking, sealing, flashing were needed where openings are too big.

00:38:49:10 - 00:39:14:14
Sam Rashkin: And take a look at again one detail like the drywall top plate. And again see why these details are so important. So we have here a winter condition where the drywall at the wall is at a joining, a ceiling facing the attic, and you see all the thermal bypass that's happening with the cold temperatures able to push through against the wall.

00:39:14:14 - 00:39:44:07
Sam Rashkin: And the reason that's happening is the drawing wall itself undulates as it's just nailed to the top plate with spacing, with the nailing that allows airflow to go through. And again, the insulation in the attic that is fibrous will stop thermal flow, but it won't stop airflow. We have gradients more or less. We create convective forces that start to again be the thermal bypass to the insulation.

00:39:44:07 - 00:40:08:22
Sam Rashkin: And you have cold surface. So what we can do is use seal sealer at the top plate install so the drywall will gasket against it. Normal construction is not as good, but when you get to retrofits and you want to fix this details and avoid the problems, the only option you probably have is to spray foam the top to get something effective and fairly time efficient.

00:40:08:22 - 00:40:38:22
Sam Rashkin: So you kind of see what your options are. And you know when you have large opening like shafts, again the first thing you do is flash the bigger opening and then you seal where it goes against the key surfaces. What's interesting here is they did have the fire rated cork around the metal flue as you would require, but back where the metal flashing goes against the sheathing adjoining the opening, they didn't seal or tape at the edges.

00:40:38:22 - 00:40:59:07
Sam Rashkin: So it's funny. Again you always find things where we just get it partially right. Nothing to know about. Airflow is the most egregious interface, and this is by far as the attic ceiling interface, and the reason the attic ceiling is the most critical almost everywhere in the country is you have first greatest temperature difference between the attic and the house.

00:40:59:10 - 00:41:19:16
Sam Rashkin: The reason for that is mostly summer conditions. The summer addicts can get up to 120, even in cold climates up to 116 70, in the heart of climates. And so you look at 50 to 70 degree differences between indoor air temperatures. When they're about 70 degrees in the winter, they'll be the same as outdoors, basically at a temperature would be the same as outdoors.

00:41:19:18 - 00:41:47:06
Sam Rashkin: But still again, you have the full delta T in the winter, and then you had a constant pressure against the attic. The stack effect is the more buoyant hot air constantly pushing out like 15 cfm, 20 CFM up against the highest points of the house. And that's a constant pressure for air to look for and find any weak point and find the least resistance pathway to get out and relieve the pressure.

00:41:47:06 - 00:42:15:25
Sam Rashkin: So you have constant pressure up against the attic interface. And then again you have this Swiss cheese of air barrier details, new walls dropped and raised ceilings and shafts and wind baffles, and the new Swiss cheese of penetrations, duct boots, access panels and aforementioned drywall to top plate, which all need air sealing. And then you have the you just you have the most huge HVAC losses up in an attic and for air conditioning equipment.

00:42:15:25 - 00:42:40:26
Sam Rashkin: So it's just stunning that this is considered a acceptable way location for heating and cooling systems. So this is the most egregious interface. It's important to know that. And then moving on to thermal flow, we have to recognize that it's not just enough to have a good amount of insulation quantity. It has to be installed. Well, you have to minimize thermal bridging.

00:42:40:26 - 00:43:16:21
Sam Rashkin: And then once you build a good framed enclosure or other enclosure, you have to recognize the windows are really detrimental to the whole world. R value. If you don't use the right efficient window and looking at each of these, it's important to recognize that there's greater accountability today with the with a much more widely available low cost infrared cameras, even I can attach a small $200 infrared camera to my smartphone and get some pretty good infrared images.

00:43:16:27 - 00:43:48:00
Sam Rashkin: Cameras used to cost 30 $40,000, and they'll reveal any weak point again quantity, quality, thermal bridging and windows. They'll reveal it right away. And so we have again a great platform for doing good thermal flow control with the latest energy codes. Here you see a comparison in this chart of 2015, 2018 and 2021. ICC requirements for slab floor, basement, across space, ceiling and frame walls.

00:43:48:01 - 00:44:15:28
Sam Rashkin: And what you see is the only difference with the 2021 I see in 2015 and 2018 are the light blue gray shaded boxes. So the big thing I'll call your attention to is that for good reason. The 2021 IX finally providing some adult supervision and requiring some modicum of slab edge insulation and climate zones three, four and five.

00:44:15:29 - 00:44:42:11
Sam Rashkin: And it just either in the case of three finally requiring slab edge insulation in climate zones four and five, bumping up the slab edge insulation of four feet from two feet depth. And you'll see that's just a critical, important addition in the case of crawl spaces and basements there providing another option that's recommended, which is instead of just a blanket, that would be our 15 or frame wallets or 19.

00:44:42:13 - 00:45:20:29
Sam Rashkin: They're recommending the frame wall 13 with a five inch like straight polystyrene against the wall. So 2021 gives you this other prescriptive option that's recommended in the ceiling or the attic. They're bumping climate zones two and three from 38 to 49 49 to 60. Recognize that's not as difficult as you would think when you have a raised hill trash that right away reduces the prescriptive requirement about to 38 or so in climbing zones two and three, and it reduces it from 60 to almost to 49.

00:45:20:29 - 00:45:48:05
Sam Rashkin: And then if if you do insulation on the slope even get further reductions. And what you have to do for the attic insulation. So where it looks prescriptive, pretty rigorous, it's less if you do what everyone should do, which is raised hill and attics. And lastly on frame walls. It's just recommending greater amount of thermal bridging control, with thicker amount of continuous insulation in climates for and higher.

00:45:48:05 - 00:46:16:15
Sam Rashkin: So that's the basic difference between our between the 2021 ICC and the 2015 and 2018, and they're all really prudent recommendations or prudent additional enhancements that everyone should be done. And the amazing thing that happens when you do a 2021 CC is what you can say is a builder compared to a minimum code on even Energy Star competitors, or home won't be obsolete in the next 3 or 4 years.

00:46:16:16 - 00:46:41:10
Sam Rashkin: Wouldn't you agree? The largest investment of the lifetime homes should stand the test of time. And for that small little investment and the amazing risk factors it mitigates for you as a builder, you're able to just completely differentiate from the builders. Or I'm building to the latest code and even the energy star builders who will be building the 2015 versus 2018 and 2021.

00:46:41:13 - 00:47:08:01
Sam Rashkin: So again, a recommendation everyone to go to 2021. But even if you do those good quantity amounts of insulation, you'll be undermined if your installation quality doesn't match our our value killers. Our gaps, voids, compression and misalignment just will every time undermine the good intentions of a good amount of insulation. And you see what happens here on the left with this.

00:47:08:02 - 00:47:38:16
Sam Rashkin: With this bandwidth configuration will have an infrared image like this on the left. And so we have solutions like spray from Banderas would be one to mitigate that risk factor. Now when it comes to thermal flow control, I'm really working so hard to get the industry to embrace that we have to do better. If you look at all the basic options, you have conventional framings about 25 to 30% framing factor.

00:47:38:16 - 00:48:04:01
Sam Rashkin: So you of your wall is one fourth, the insulation advanced framing still almost 20% framing factor. Staggered studs would be 12%, double wall 10%. This is again because of all the framing. And so plates and top plates around windows and doors. And then when you get to the advanced wall system, structural panels are 5% framing factor and continuous insulation will be 2%.

00:48:04:02 - 00:48:31:19
Sam Rashkin: I'm going to suggest that in 2024. These are not good enough. It's far too excessive thermal bridging. Plus you have all these quality challenges installing insulation in these wall assemblies. And you still have very high moisture control risks because you have the absolute coldest surfaces. As you go from left to right, your service inside the cavity keeps getting colder and colder, and your risk factors keep getting higher and higher.

00:48:31:19 - 00:49:02:10
Sam Rashkin: So these choices minimize the thermal purging. Plus, you know you have ensured quality installed insulation, at least with SIPs and with the continuous insulation portion of the framing with continuous insulation. And and some says no vapor flow going through the assembly. You have almost zero moisture control risk bridge insulation. You're minimized. Depending on using the proper thickness of continuous insulation.

00:49:02:12 - 00:49:29:20
Sam Rashkin: If you don't use the right amount of thickness, which many builders aren't prone to want to resist because once you get thicker and thicker, you can no longer nail the rigid insulation you have to screw it in, and which is time consuming and expensive. And the reason that you have to screw in the insulation gets thicker is effectively cantilever in your cladding an inch and a half or more when it gets to that depth.

00:49:29:20 - 00:49:54:02
Sam Rashkin: And so the screws provide the extra structural support to manage that cantilever effect of this, of the cladding being really have a one 1.5in airspace before it reaches the frame sheathing and the studs. So you know again these are your options. We'll talk more about them later. I mentioned the adult supervision. We've got to get to the slab insulation here.

00:49:54:02 - 00:50:32:29
Sam Rashkin: You see that you have a superhighway for heat to get out in the winter to the once colder outside and heat to get in when it's hot outside and air conditioned inside. And the infrared images show you just what a egregious thermal offender, thermal flow offender that the slab edge insulation is. So the 2021 ice Age rent. And you can use more simple, low cost details like rigid insulation flash against the foundation or the more advanced systems where the rigid insulation is both your your slab edge insulation.

00:50:32:29 - 00:51:00:17
Sam Rashkin: And it's your form for pouring the concrete. And you have the entire concrete thermally broken from the ground I mentioned. Last part is the windows can be a complete whole wall are about R-value killer. Again, the infrared images show you that you can have a really well insulated wall and you have like a funnel effect with thermal flow can just be just pouring out the windows and undermine all the good intentions.

00:51:00:17 - 00:51:40:07
Sam Rashkin: With a really good wall system, the vans framing, double wall, staggered studs, even sips. We have to just basically recognize the importance of windows and cold climates particularly. And so I just ran some calculations just to show you what happens when use an energy store window with a you value point three compared to a R7 window, which is 0.15, you value and use it with various wall insulated cavity wall insulation assemblies, ratings, a six inch wall art 39, roughly about a 13 inch wall or a 60 is roughly a 20 inch wall.

00:51:40:07 - 00:52:02:21
Sam Rashkin: And you see what happens. Basically, we have the effect of our value compared to the insulated wall R value in the boxes. So within Energy Star window that's point three. You value my rating frame wall drops in terms of a whole wall value including windows to are a 40% drop by time we get to an R 60 wall.

00:52:02:21 - 00:52:36:12
Sam Rashkin: That Energy Star window results in a 70% drop to only R 17. With a 13 inch R 39 wall, it dropped 60%. And most importantly, I can keep the six inch wall instead of the 13 inch wall and get almost a performance to that 13 inch wall by using a R7 window later, I'll talk about it. New innovation where I can get a R7 window at only a small small extra cost and get the same performance as at 39 wall with a six inch advanced framing wall.

00:52:36:12 - 00:53:13:13
Sam Rashkin: So windows are just a huge impact on the overall thermal performance, and we have to recognize the importance of windows. And the next imperative is disaster resistance. This is just. The new reality. This this is where we are one is this incredibly greater risk because of the exponentially increasing frequency of storms, the exponentially increasing magnitude of storms, and the exponential increase expense incurred because of these storms?

00:53:13:14 - 00:53:42:06
Sam Rashkin: And let's look at that one at a time and recognize first is nowhere to hide when we track us. Billion dollar weather and climate disasters from 1980 to 2016. Maps show you bristly. There's nowhere to go for droughts and heatwaves. Winter storms are in the usual suspects and some surprising suspects, and some major storms in Texas last few years that took out power and just gives slammed the entire state.

00:53:42:08 - 00:54:14:17
Sam Rashkin: Obviously, hurricanes and cyclones are basically in the Gulf region and the Atlantic seaboard. Flooding is in most of the country except the dry southwest and mountain states, wildfires in the whole western portion of the country and severe local storms, you know, whole middle and eastern seaboard of the country. So virtually there's almost nowhere to go. And the estimated market value for 43% of the homes in the US counties with high risk is $6.6 trillion.

00:54:14:17 - 00:54:51:10
Sam Rashkin: So almost half the US counties in the country have high exposure to disaster risk. And the market value for the sums of $6.6 trillion is nothing close to that amount of money in reserves by the insurance industry that cannot manage this risk. And because of that, they're leaving the markets. They know they can't manage the risk. So, you know, good luck trying to get wildfire insurance and California and storm insurance in Florida and increasing number of states where companies are just pulling out and they're leaving for all the obvious reasons.

00:54:51:11 - 00:55:20:14
Sam Rashkin: The growing exposure you start increase in construction costs when they have to replace damage, they're replacing it. Incredible. Increased costs 55% from 2019 to 2022, just the last three years. And the reinsurance market just wants nothing to do with these. Risk exposures are imposing 30 to 40% increases to the insurance industry. So they're just leaving in droves. Sometimes you're lucky to have one option in some states.

00:55:20:14 - 00:55:46:21
Sam Rashkin: And then as a result, the cost of going up like crazy. North Carolina just in the last year, the insurance industry submitted for over 40% increase. Statewide. Florida has seen over 100% increase in the last three years. It's happening all across the country. Insurance costs are just just taking down so many homeowners ability to afford living in the homes they currently located.

00:55:46:21 - 00:56:21:28
Sam Rashkin: And then we get to productivity. And we all know these issues that, you know, we want to build high performance enclosures, but the quality of the trades, the skills they have, the just the availability is just insane. Over 90% of builders reported framing crew and carpenter shortages in 2022 trades most critical to enclosures. Of course, insulation contractors are also important, but, you know, that's when 90, 90 plus percent of the industry is fighting for trade.

00:56:22:00 - 00:56:47:17
Sam Rashkin: They start accepting almost any quality they can get. Something with a pulse will do, and then everything starts to suffer behind that and it's not going away. The Home builders calculates who needs 700,000 plus workers each year just to meet and combat the current 1.5 million homes shortage that the housing industry's confronted, new article read A couple of days ago.

00:56:47:18 - 00:57:13:10
Sam Rashkin: I think puts total shortage of homes getting closer to 1214 million cumulative that needs to be built to meet the demand for new households. On top of that, the average construction worker age is over 42, and for every five workers who retire, there are only two in the pipeline pipeline coming in behind to replace them. This is a cliff.

00:57:13:13 - 00:57:34:29
Sam Rashkin: We're marching towards it. There are less workers. It's not enough that you're a high performance enclosure. The new imperative is can you be built with a shrinking labor force that has less quality, that your new reality? That's the question you have to ask. And the other thing about productivity to tell you that we've got a problem is just two images.

00:57:34:29 - 00:58:02:02
Sam Rashkin: This is a home being built in 1877, in a home Nebraska, compared to one being built this year 150 years. And just marvel, be stunned at the lack of innovation. Just look at the same framing strewn across the job site and the waste strewn across the drop site. The same lack of ergonomics and safety factors and how workers are constructing the homes.

00:58:02:03 - 00:58:31:07
Sam Rashkin: Nothing has changed of any substance. We've gone from Western platform to from balloon framing a Western platform have gone from dimensional lumber to engineered lumber, some little improvements and connectors and power tools. But this is a stunning glacial amount of innovation, and we see it in the numbers. When McKinsey and company calculates productivity over time, productivity is a value added per worker.

00:58:31:08 - 00:58:58:01
Sam Rashkin: That's basically how it's measured. Construction is unique. It's the only industry that has negative productivity growth in the last 3 or 4 decades. And manufacturers had double what construction said. And the cost of this, again, calculated in another study by McKinsey and company to the entire construction industry, is $200 billion. That could be close with adopting a 21st century manufacturing methods.

00:58:58:09 - 00:59:21:05
Sam Rashkin: The way we're constructing homes is not affordable today. We got to build enclosures in a way that the consumer can actually afford the product, and a lot of the costs comes from just cycle time, from the lack of productivity. And cycle time has huge impacts on the cost the builder incurs and the price they pass down to the buyer.

00:59:21:07 - 00:59:53:28
Sam Rashkin: Cost savings accrue from just reducing caring cost, increasing efficiency of how you work, and mitigating interests that you don't have to pay when you finish the job in a reduced amount of time. Enhance profitability goes to the bottom line because of cash flow improvements, better pricing, and far, far better sales and closing. If the velocity of sales and closing results in building an extra two, three, four homes a year and I'm making 60 70,000 net margin per house, that's hundreds of thousands of dollars per year.

00:59:54:00 - 01:00:24:11
Sam Rashkin: If I can build a few extra homes a year in cost just attributed to the bottom line profitability because of not having productivity, and then the risk factors cost money because it takes longer. You're not as adaptable to market conditions, you're more exposed to inflation factors and economic uncertainty uncertainties, whether it's design trend changes, whether it's the job market or the overall economy, taking hits will affect your ability to sell, market and price.

01:00:24:11 - 01:00:53:13
Sam Rashkin: Your product time is a huge cost, and the fact that we build glacially today does not work anymore. And all those benefits are not included in the bidding process. Okay, now I'm going to pass along to J.D. some innovation from Standard Electric. We could be more excited having this module because like we say, smart is the new and they have some amazing innovation to offer you.

01:00:53:13 - 01:00:57:11
Sam Rashkin: So I'm going to let JD talk about what Snyder Electric is doing.

01:00:57:13 - 01:01:04:13
JD: All right. Thanks. An appropriate it I'm going to share my screen. Sam. Maybe you can confirm. Once you got it.

01:01:04:16 - 01:01:08:13
Sam Rashkin: We'll do okay. Good, good JD.

01:01:08:15 - 01:01:30:18
JD: Got it. All right. Perfect. Good afternoon everyone. Thanks, Sam for for having me and yeah, kind of go play off your title, but I'm tweaking it a little bit. So I'm talking about high performance homes, but energy efficiency is really only one piece of it. So let's dive into, you know, what we got to show here. So I think, Sam, you're covering a lot of this.

01:01:30:21 - 01:01:51:12
JD: And I know we've shown this slide many times, but just some macro events that are happening in the industry today. So sustainability when it comes to sustainability, we're still seeing a large increase in residential solar even from 22 to 23, about 30% increase year over year. Along with solar. We're seeing resilience being a big part of it as well.

01:01:51:12 - 01:02:24:26
JD: So homeowners are wanting to add batteries as a backup. So whether it's resilience for PSPS, power safety, public shutoffs or if it's the weather related events that Sam was just talking about that are happening more and more often, whether it's wildfires in California all the way to hurricanes on the East Coast. So we're looking at resiliency there, not only with batteries, but even with EVs, EVs becoming more and more popular, we are seeing EV to home or vehicle to home via bidirectional charging becoming more and more popular.

01:02:24:26 - 01:02:51:11
JD: So instead of having a, you know, a couple of batteries on the side of the house, maybe folks are using EVs to power their house in, in, in outages or to increase their efficiency. Speaking of efficiency, utility rates are just skyrocketing over the last ten years, roughly a 25% increase across the nation. California specifically, we're talking over 100% increase in utility rates in the last ten years.

01:02:51:11 - 01:03:17:24
JD: So it's it's vital for for homeowners to to be more efficient with energy that they're using. That all being said, we still, you know, the homeowner still wants personalization. They want to be comfortable, but they also want to have savings right from from that. So what's that balance and how do we achieve that. So talking about what consumers want I'm going to talk about Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

01:03:17:24 - 01:03:39:18
JD: So a little bit of a philosophy lesson. If you guys are not familiar with that we are going to talk about this in the realm of of what consumers want. So Maslow said, you know, in terms of basic needs, safety and physiological needs are are the foundation. If you don't have those, you can't add to the layers above it.

01:03:39:19 - 01:04:16:24
JD: So resiliency for homeowners is really the number one foundation. So that means having power from the grid at all times. Taking a look at the next evolution energy efficiency part of it. Right. Existing homeowners are looking at energy efficiency upgrades as a top item. Homes are going more electric when it comes to heat pump, water heaters, electric stoves, etc. and looking at the smart home side of things, I mean, now a new home, you know, I call it smart standard, but doorbells and thermostats, you know, most homes aren't putting the standard ones in.

01:04:16:25 - 01:04:41:05
JD: They're always going to be a smart version of those. And we feel like the electrical panel is that next step. Finally, self-actualization is a top tier of of this hierarchy of needs. And that attains to sustainability, right? Having net zero homes are becoming more and more important to the customers. And even for builders there's there's tax credits involved.

01:04:41:07 - 01:05:07:19
JD: Right. But if if none of these top layers matter, if there is a, you know, effect to the power or that resiliency piece, right? So if the homeowners don't have that safety, that security of the grid or any sort of, you know, power source, those top layers won't matter. So let's talk about those pieces in terms of what they can mean in a potential additions to the home in terms of product.

01:05:07:20 - 01:05:44:23
JD: So looking at resiliency that could could possibly mean adding a smart electrical panel to manage some of those loads, as well as adding a home battery storage to have that backup resiliency in terms of outages, whether it's grid related or weather related. Next, we have energy efficiency and smart home. So that really starts with power monitoring, right. Really visualizing your energy, seeing where what items are, you know, are the big power sources and how you can change your habits to maybe work around time of use, utility time of use rates.

01:05:44:24 - 01:06:10:29
JD: Right. So visually seeing what you're using is step one. Step two. There is then adding levels of control if needed. Right. Whether it's at the panel level or at the device or room by room level via switches, dimmers and receptacles. So lastly right top of the top of the pyramid here is this. Ideally we want to automate minimize our carbon footprint but maximize savings from the utility right.

01:06:10:29 - 01:06:34:26
JD: So that is taking all these parts and pieces, combining them into into one space where the homeowner can, you know, achieve all of this. But at the same time, they don't want to be the facility manager of their home. So it's really automating all these parts and pieces to maximize that, that efficiency for for the homeowner and ultimately, you know, for the bottom dollar in their, in their checkbook.

01:06:34:28 - 01:06:47:15
JD: So that was just a quick five minutes. But just some contact information here. And I think we'll have question and answers at the end. But Sam, thanks for the time.

01:06:47:17 - 01:07:03:18
Mike Collignon: Thank you, JD. And if people do have questions for JD, they certainly can send them into the chat box. And JD, I would ask if you would simply put your email address into the chat box for everyone as well, in case they think of some questions a little bit later on. Sam, I see you're.

01:07:03:18 - 01:07:08:01
JD: Back on.

01:07:08:03 - 01:07:11:23
Sam Rashkin: Hey, great Mike, is my screen back on?

01:07:11:25 - 01:07:21:29
Mike Collignon: Not yet. We got your camera, but let's get the. I think Mary is working on switching the screen back over to you, and now it's back on.

01:07:22:02 - 01:07:51:29
Sam Rashkin: Hey, fantastic. Hey thanks, JD. And again, I encourage everyone to take a good look at Standard Electric. They package everything into a incredibly elegant, simple package versus all these different moving parts that have to be assembled. So we love their innovation in the smart space. Okay, moving on. Let's talk about the, have all these.

01:07:52:01 - 01:08:11:20
Sam Rashkin: Details and best practices for how we get to high performance enclosures. How do we do it faster, better, cheaper. And that's going to be the topic here. I'm going to cover a few options and then do a deep dive into one. One example would be an obvious one that a lot of us have switched to would be the inventive crawl space.

01:08:11:23 - 01:08:37:16
Sam Rashkin: It's just so far superior to abandon crawl space because one it's faster, you know, you look at all the time it takes to insulate the floor of a of a home and just and details you have to do anyway, just for sometimes radon protection and just keeping moisture from the ground by having a vapor retarder down against the soil, we can do reduce maybe cycle time of day.

01:08:37:16 - 01:09:03:01
Sam Rashkin: We had better thermal control. We had better moisture control, far better comfort than having a crawl space. That's outdoor temperature and high humidity. We have that semi condition space that can be used for storage and HVAC, and we just have a lot less risk, which is also just a better living experience. And we save money on energy. We save money on cycle time.

01:09:03:06 - 01:09:34:11
Sam Rashkin: We save money on far less insulation to insulate the crawl space perimeter wall versus the entire floor footprint. And we eliminate all the costs for all the venting. So this is, you know, just an obvious innovation everyone should be using where they build markets and crawl spaces going vented. In the case of foundations, we have basements. I'm always amazed how slow the uptake is with precast concrete foundations.

01:09:34:11 - 01:10:08:23
Sam Rashkin: We compare a concrete foundation for the precast, the concrete foundation. First of all, again, we recommend the extruded polystyrene against the wall as basically a complete thermal bridge and a buffer against condensation on the cold surface. And then we build a frame wall with the insulation and then the drywall, if we want only have that one drain tile perimeter, we need to have a conduit through the slab every six feet on center to let water and moisture accumulating under the slab have a pathway to the drain tile.

01:10:08:24 - 01:10:35:00
Sam Rashkin: We have a lot of expenses in contrast with a precast concrete foundation. One it goes in like in one day, so you're probably going to save a fair amount of time in construction. Plus, you can build it in winter and sometimes do construction that you can otherwise not do in cold weather. And then it's stronger because it's an effective bond grain, but bond beam and has far greater moisture protection.

01:10:35:00 - 01:11:01:04
Sam Rashkin: It's built in it in indoor conditions with 5000 psi concrete, compared to 3000 psi concrete poured in on site. So it's almost like moisture proof as it's constructed. You have a clear path to the drain talk because it's not on a footing, blocking the path of moisture to the Gentile. And that's because it's like a bond beam that just sits on gravel.

01:11:01:08 - 01:11:34:07
Sam Rashkin: It has much more dimensional accuracy. It's much more usable space, because the thickness of the whole assembly might be 5 to 6in less thick for a condition space. It has a framing and the extruded poly, so you may get 80 90ft². That alone it might be worth $100. A square foot might be 9 or $10,000 of value there, and it uses 70% less concrete because it's so much more material efficient, which is much better for carbon footprint and just less use of resource materials and the cost savings of the cycle time.

01:11:34:07 - 01:12:01:04
Sam Rashkin: And with the integrated Ferring, it means an insulation. You don't have to spend for all the insulation and framing that you normally do for finished basement. So this is a very compelling innovation and I'm just surprised more high performance on this. Don't use it. Then we have that triple glazed window in cold weather. Compelling business case we talked about earlier.

01:12:01:05 - 01:12:31:18
Sam Rashkin: And what's exciting, we now have the thin triple low window, the three manufacturers that offer this window and essentially what they use in the inner glass layer in the middle instead of a normal glass, they use much more thin glass that you would use for LED TV. This allows the extrusion to be the same depth as a double glazed window, where normal triple glazed window requires a manufacturer to reset the whole manufacturing process to allow for a thicker windows product.

01:12:31:18 - 01:12:55:21
Sam Rashkin: So it's faster because it's lightweight and easy to install. Now, not nearly as heavy as a triple glazed window, we can get our five to our ten set of our three, so it's better. It has enhanced comfort, less condensation risk than a normal double glazed window, and the cost savings are a small cost premium because manufacture plant doesn't have to retool for that thicker extrusion for the window.

01:12:55:23 - 01:13:21:11
Sam Rashkin: The thin float glass I'll use in TVs is widely available. Much lower cost and krypton gases drop in cost substantially, which also enhances the thermal performance. And there are other cost savings will be when you use it thin triple, you'll probably be able to offset other energy efficiency measures that you no longer need to do as a net credit against the cost of the window.

01:13:21:11 - 01:13:43:05
Sam Rashkin: So again, this is a fast a bit of cheaper option. Really excited to see number of manufacturers come out with this product. Finally. And then I'm going to talk more in depth about structural insulated panels because I spent a lot of time with this one. And again, I'm amazed that we are building such a complicated system with conventional framing versus assembling panels on site.

01:13:43:06 - 01:14:13:29
Sam Rashkin: In fact, the SIP optimizes all five imperatives moisture flow control, air flow control, thermal flow control, productivity, and resilience. It's basically grossly entire list of must haves. I believe in a 2024 enclosure and it starts just with its basic configuration. Now you have this optimized insulation, this phone core that has no gaps, boys compressions. It's almost a perfect material and it allows no vapor flow through it.

01:14:14:00 - 01:14:43:28
Sam Rashkin: When you have a complete optimized exterior and interior skin. So this is the like building a Yeti cooler for a thermal for optimized thermal performance of your home. And so this is basically just in concept, just so far superior to a frame system and uses about half the wood. So again, another kind of environmental carbon footprint benefit to the whole technology.

01:14:43:29 - 01:15:05:24
Sam Rashkin: This is the air barrier checklist we talked about before which you have with framing with SIPs it all goes away. Accept for the very low probability of a house with a house with a whole house fan. So virtually the entire air barrier checklist that you have in framing goes away. This is the air sealing checklist for framing we talked about earlier.

01:15:05:26 - 01:15:29:12
Sam Rashkin: All these go away except for some vents, flues, some sill plates, windows and doors, sheathing joints which are much more widely spaced. And again, the framing for the foundation penalty, the foundation. So like two thirds of the linkage goes away with SIPs, it's hard to do a sip home that's over 1 or 1.5 ACH 50 have to really work at it.

01:15:29:17 - 01:15:56:19
Sam Rashkin: And one of the reasons I mentioned 1.5 ACH 50 is a target is innovations like this almost guaranteed one or just slightly above 1.0 ACH 50. And then the thermal bridging goes away. So the left you have a frame house. It's actually a pretty decent job. And still you see how much thermal bridging impacts and thermal performance versus a much more effective thermal break construction system like SIPs work continuous insulation.

01:15:56:21 - 01:16:35:03
Sam Rashkin: So let's compare SIPs to continuous insulation first. Here's the baseline typical stick wall. And what you see is that you have the risk factor we talked about before where you have any time air leakage can get to the cold surface. You know, you have a condensation risk that can occur in cold climates. And it's prone to airflow. Convection leaks because it's constructed typically with with fibrous insulation and quality and installation challenges when the trade force that installs installations paid by the piece met by the quality of the installation.

01:16:35:04 - 01:17:12:20
Sam Rashkin: So then option A is the stick frame wall with continuous insulation. One is it's still prone to airflow convection to that surface. But you have the buffer, the thickness of the insulation, reducing the temperature of the surface to help reduce the risk. So it minimizes the risk of condensation. If we use the proper thickness again, the pressure in the builder would be to use thinner thicknesses and often is required to maintain the proper buffer and risk mitigation because they don't want to go an inch and a half or greater and have to screw the original insulation versus nail it, and you still have a lot of quality assurance challenges putting all these layers and pieces

01:17:12:20 - 01:17:40:10
Sam Rashkin: together that are very complicated. And the case of SIPs, it's just one large panel. Usually that just drops in place that has a solid and homogeneous core that's air impermeable. So convection air leakage is not possible, condensation is not possible. And because of the assembly versus construction, you have many fold greater inherent quality assurance going for you than with stick framing.

01:17:40:10 - 01:18:01:29
Sam Rashkin: So amazing just how much more innovative it is. And position for faster, better, cheaper. So when we look at the installation on the left, which is continuous installation, you see the installation requires the drill and the screws because you have an inch and a half ferring and it's going through and going to be kind of living all that cladding on top of it.

01:18:01:29 - 01:18:23:28
Sam Rashkin: Plus you see all the layers and sometimes it's been shrinkage from from a continuous rigid insulation insulation four by eight or by ten sheets from one to the next, which can create an air gap. And in contrast, when you look at the just dropping these large panels in place, here's a roof panel being lifted in place. But it's so much less time.

01:18:23:29 - 01:18:58:11
Sam Rashkin: There's so many less trades and you had much, much better moisture risk reduction, amazing dimensional accuracy, much greater strength in impact resistance and plus greater shear strength. You have much more added volume that you can gain from the attic or from thinner walls. You have enhanced resilience with impact resilience. And with addicts, you don't have embarrassing wildfires that can get in there in hurricanes and windstorms, wind that can get inside vents to the attic and pressurize and cause damage.

01:18:58:15 - 01:19:32:06
Sam Rashkin: You have half the wood, so you have less carbon and all the cost savings from cycle times, inspections and rework. You know, it's just again, I don't know that we look at these innovations for all their costs and value benefits. And take for instance, just the thinner wall benefit. Oak Ridge National Laboratory did the calculations for four CIP on the left versus other assemblies, and on the two on the right, the two by six 24in on center with quality installation, or a typical installation of two by 6 to 24in in the center.

01:19:32:06 - 01:20:00:08
Sam Rashkin: In both cases, the CIP are 14 outperforms the six inch wall. In the case of the typical installation, it outperforms it by over 20% and by a few percent for the quality installation again. What's all the extra costs for quality installation of grade one insulation and all the framing details and everything else you have to do? So just a grade one insulation cost savings could be 1000 to 1500.

01:20:00:09 - 01:20:21:18
Sam Rashkin: The air ceiling and air barriers you don't have to install might be worth 1 to 2000. The rework that doesn't have to be installed might be one to 1500, the way savings could be 1 to 2000, in terms of both having to manage and move the waste into the waste dumpsters, and then having the waste dumpsters that you pay for in the tipping fees.

01:20:21:18 - 01:20:46:17
Sam Rashkin: And then you might say five, six, seven days are also worth two and a half, $4,000 plus. On the value side, you might be adding 30ft² of space to a 1400 square foot home that's worth 10 to $15,000. If the space is worth, let's say, $250 a square foot plus a value of, the extra resilience for storms, for wildfires and for earthquakes might be worth 2 to 4000.

01:20:46:19 - 01:21:11:27
Sam Rashkin: And all the extra quality and dimensional accuracy might be worth 2 to 4000. And very quickly you start to see these are huge cost factors and value factors that really affect the overall economics. Of what decision do you make when choosing an enclosure? And then look at attics, the most egregious interface. When you do a normal framed house with a vented attic, you don't pass a red line test.

01:21:11:27 - 01:21:40:16
Sam Rashkin: There should be a six sided air assembly around all the insulation installation that's fibrous insulation. And in a typical vented attic, whoops, we're missing the top side air better. We try to compensate by making the insulation requirements thicker in the attic, but that only is a partial compromise. And then you also want up sticking heating and cooling systems in many parts of the country up there where their performance can drop 20, 30% or more.

01:21:40:18 - 01:22:11:21
Sam Rashkin: So in contrast with sympathetic one, I'm saving time because it goes up so much faster. It's better because I have all that additional volume for conditioned space for storage, whatever I choose to use it for, for MEP, it's more efficient, it's more comfortable, it's stronger, it's more resilient, and I save money on all the savings from not requiring insulation and air sealing and rework and risk factors have no cost for vents, for ridge and soften.

01:22:11:21 - 01:22:34:10
Sam Rashkin: Gable vents have no air barriers and air sealing details I have to pay for to anywhere near the same extent as I do in framing and all the time savings is a significant benefit that we talked about earlier. Again, we're not looking at the full cost equation when we're comparing just by looking at a framing package bid to a SIP bid.

01:22:34:15 - 01:23:01:29
Sam Rashkin: And when you look at the installation, you look at this vented attic on the left, and you compare it to the quality and, and the persistence of the performance of that SIP panel. It's amazing difference. I put in 24in of insulation in my attic to cover my ducts that were running in my attic, and I went back seven, eight years later and the insulation dropped by more than half.

01:23:02:01 - 01:23:20:09
Sam Rashkin: It was cellulose insulation. I don't know if it was accumulating the moisture and getting weighted down or what was driving the compression, but was amazing, the lack of persistence. And but when you just see fluffy stuff in the attic, you know, it's more vulnerable when workers go up there to run some cable wiring or to do some repairs.

01:23:20:10 - 01:23:44:27
Sam Rashkin: Anytime anything happens virtually, you know that you're compromising the existing installation. If it's not itself settling over time. And when you look at all this volume, there's so many uses, again, for conditioned space, for storage and for a number of uses. And it even gets more dramatic how much savings increase when we actually start integrating innovation into the design process.

01:23:44:27 - 01:24:03:13
Sam Rashkin: So we know we're going to build with a SIPs house. In the beginning it can affect our overall design for used savings. So let's say in this example it's typical to build a frame house with a basement. What we can do, knowing that we want to use an innovation like SIPs is instead opt for a shallow frost protected footing.

01:24:03:13 - 01:24:27:29
Sam Rashkin: Get rid of the basement, the least desirable space in the home, the below grade space, and traded off for upper level with daylight and without being up against a foundation which is cold, and a basement floor that is cold and creates comfort issues that we almost always have in basements. So we tried off the less desirable basement that might be worth, let's say, $100 a square foot for an above grade space.

01:24:27:29 - 01:24:50:28
Sam Rashkin: It's worth $250 a square foot. And here's how maybe the numbers accrue. We can save up to $6,000 building a shallow, frost protected footing versus a whole basement. We have all the wall framing we get for free, and each end of the attic we have. Those walls we build now serve a purpose. So the walls to the above grade space, the upper level.

01:24:51:00 - 01:25:15:10
Sam Rashkin: We don't have to build egress windows for maybe 1 to 2000 savings. All the air, ceiling and air bury details that go away that we showed you earlier might be 1 to 2000 savings, all the attic venting that goes away for about a thousand of savings, all the waste reduction and moving the waste to the dumpster go away for maybe 1 to 2000 savings and we can save three, four, five, six, seven days of time.

01:25:15:10 - 01:25:40:22
Sam Rashkin: That might be worth one and a half to 2500 plus, if my 800ft² of upper level is worth another hundred, $150 square foot to below grade space, now that's another 80 to $100,000 a value of accrued. These are big numbers and we don't normally count them. And then also just think about how much easier businesses you get rid of the framing trade.

01:25:40:24 - 01:25:59:21
Sam Rashkin: Except for maybe some interior walls. You get rid of the insulation trades and get rid of the air ceiling and air barrier trades. And you reduce the scope of work for drywall, because the drywall attached to the outside walls has continuous sheathing, it no longer has to be cut so it can be nailed on its edges to the wood studs.

01:25:59:21 - 01:26:23:06
Sam Rashkin: It could just be installed continuously wherever it wants to be against the outside wall, solid sheathing. And that's less waste. It's less time. And the finishes and trim have these dimensionally dead on true walls versus the undulations and frame walls. It's faster, it's easier and less waste and less inspections and testing for air sealing or insulation. Grade one.

01:26:23:08 - 01:26:53:27
Sam Rashkin: And and for framing details that don't have to be done. Less site cleanup and waste removal. A lot of trades go away and the cycle time for the system is 25 days less, and I'm cost that a builder incurs for time is 505 to $800 a day. Based on research done by Ibex. That's 12.5 to $20,000. Just a benefit just from the time savings that you accrue.

01:26:53:29 - 01:27:21:19
Sam Rashkin: And these numbers were calculated $5,800 with calculated about 8 or 10 years ago. So again, knowing all the cost increases that have occurred in the industry, these numbers could be getting higher and higher. And again, just the velocity benefit alone for the builder. If you can build one, two, three, four houses more a year quicker, just that starts to be in the tens and tens of thousands of dollars of benefit for increased velocity.

01:27:21:21 - 01:27:58:10
Sam Rashkin: And lastly, resilience in SIPs just is better resistance to wildfires than impact to win to snow load and is good or better in earthquake. So we have all these benefits. So what do we do when we have these advantages. How do we translate faster, better cheaper? And so we have 150 year old technology versus advanced enclosure technology. And normally what a builder will do is look at a framing bid, look at a sips bid, get sticker shock because of the SIP number, even though includes all these extra costs, benefits and value benefits and can't get over the shock effect of the higher SIP price and nothing happens.

01:27:58:18 - 01:28:21:23
Sam Rashkin: So what I've been doing is working with the industry to really calibrate what are all the cost savings benefits. I won't go through all these. We mentioned so many of the benefits of using advanced wall system and what are all the value benefits, you know, quality, enhanced space and access to incentives that may occur. And what I've done is integrate those into a very detailed, true cost calculator tool.

01:28:21:29 - 01:28:40:29
Sam Rashkin: It's driven by a spreadsheet. I do this with a number of my clients that have innovation. They're trying to get to market just because it really brings forward in the Bing process the huge advantages for innovation. So let me give you some case studies just to show you how it actually works. Madison Homes are good, owned by a good friend of mine.

01:28:41:02 - 01:29:09:21
Sam Rashkin: She was going to build this custom home for himself in Greenville, South Carolina, 2740ft². I think he was pricing about $450,000, and his normal frame walls and roof trusses typical construction. So Todd had all of his bidding numbers and all of his costs. And we asked, can we compare it to using SIPs? But this was not a SIP optimized design.

01:29:09:29 - 01:29:39:15
Sam Rashkin: There was no place to locate posts for ridge beams to support the SIP roof, so still had to rely on the roof trusses. So you had expense for the roof trusses. Even though using the SIPs it wasn't on cue for dimensions. There are a number of factors that didn't make it a optimized design. So what what I did was try to show what happened to Todd in all the conditions of first getting a bid of then comparing to a true cost.

01:29:39:15 - 01:30:05:09
Sam Rashkin: And then later on, we looked at what would happen if we optimized design for set. So the way it works is the horizontal line is your framing cost, and anything above that line is more cost and framing for SIPs and anything below the line is less cost or added value. So that's basically the way it worked. And when he got the bid for the SIPs and compared it to his framing bid, it was $43,000 more expensive.

01:30:05:10 - 01:30:27:01
Sam Rashkin: Again, that's the sticker shock we talked about. It was a 63% premium when you compare the SIPs bid to the framing bid, but it didn't factor in the insulation, didn't need to install the air ceiling that goes away. All the benefits of some extra volume. Everything else that accrues we talked about was not factored in. So then we compared it with true costs.

01:30:27:02 - 01:30:51:01
Sam Rashkin: Using the true cost tool just showed you. And what happened is we knocked down the cost to $20,000, and we had $7,000 of value from extra strength and resilience and quality and things that Todd valued. Again, it's all done in concert with the builder. So that reduced the premium to 10%. And Todd got really excited about SIPs because now it's down to 10%.

01:30:51:02 - 01:31:18:13
Sam Rashkin: He wanted to know if he can do more. So he sat down with the manufacturer and said, what can we do with the design to mitigate some of these cost factors and make it more SIP optimized? Remember what I said about what happens when I integrate innovation? At the beginning of the design process? Everything changes, and now the cost premium dropped to $1,800 while still realizing that $7,000 extra value benefit again for quality and resilience and time savings and things of that nature.

01:31:18:13 - 01:31:41:18
Sam Rashkin: So this is amazing what happens. And now Todd is going to build this house, as I understand it with SIPs. But the decision was so much more informed once all the costs were understood and done in concert with the builder, using his or her numbers to make sure it truly aligns with their business reality. So that was the first case study.

01:31:41:24 - 01:32:12:16
Sam Rashkin: The second case study was in reverse here. Rob Howard with Howard Building Science, just one of the most amazing, compassionate builders you'll ever find, builds workforce housing and Granite Falls in North Carolina. So this is a 1600 square foot home for under $200,000. And it has sip walls and roofs. So he was already billing SIP. So he wanted to better clarify for him the smart decision making he was doing probably intuitively and get the numbers.

01:32:12:16 - 01:32:33:08
Sam Rashkin: So he got the bid numbers for framing alternatives if he built it the other way. And the reason this house was SIP optimized is, as you can see, it has a very simple roof when you use the floor plan was half the attic was for storage, the other half was for ceilings. For vaulted ceilings which have more value than flat ceilings used on two foot dimensions.

01:32:33:09 - 01:33:11:05
Sam Rashkin: Use deathless split. It was a really nice package. So when we first compared in this case, what the framing package that we got the bids for was to the SIP package. The SIPs was $14,000 more expensive, which would go, oh my God, what am I doing? Why am I using SIPs? It's a 56% premium. But then we did the true cost analysis and we realized was his net cost increase when he can't all the benefits of a quality of air selling that's integrated, of the insulation, that's integrated of all the time savings, it was only $2,000 more expensive.

01:33:11:05 - 01:33:31:21
Sam Rashkin: And he's getting $37,000 of benefits. He had a whole attic storage he wouldn't have had with a roof truss, had bolted ceilings he wouldn't have had with a roof truss. His walls were thinner. So he had more, more condition square footage they would have with framing. He had again the quality, the resilience. All those value benefits added up to $37,000.

01:33:31:21 - 01:33:58:20
Sam Rashkin: So 65% more value. And we added clarification. For him, this is how smart it was for you to choose to use SIPs. Last case study is Greensmith Builders. Good friend Aaron Smith, executive director of eBay, is also a builder as well. And this is a multifamily project. Two buildings, 54 units. This is Laverne, Minnesota, right on the border of South Dakota.

01:33:58:20 - 01:34:26:14
Sam Rashkin: And he had 1 in 2 bedroom floor plans for rent the hers index without solar was 45. The ACH 50 without a SIP roof was 1.35 ACH 50. The sips were just the exterior walls or the walls for the hallways and the walls between units. It was really optimized because, again, the walls are simple to install and it was one hour from the plant.

01:34:26:16 - 01:34:52:26
Sam Rashkin: So again, we did the same thing. And when we we had the SIP numbers, we got the framing numbers. We found out the SIP package was almost $52,000 premium, 11% greater than if he had used framing for all the exterior walls, the Mising walls, and hallway wolves. But when he counted the true cost, you know, the savings on the insulation, the savings and air ceiling, the savings on thickness, the savings on.

01:34:52:28 - 01:35:20:28
Sam Rashkin: Quality and and all the benefits for resilience and so forth. We talked about the net cost savings was actually cost was lower. It's $108,000 lower than if you built with frame walls and insulated air sealed it separately. And the extra value again from the resilience and all the other quality and other benefits is $125,000. One of the big benefits, by the way, in multifamily housing is a three biggest.

01:35:21:01 - 01:35:48:02
Sam Rashkin: Experiences that people dislike most about multifamily housing are sharing pest odors and noise with the joining units, and almost all that goes away with the systems and walls. So 31% more value on this project by using SIPs. Which is why. Which is what Aaron new ahead of time. He just didn't know the precise number that we're able to calculate with the tool.

01:35:48:05 - 01:36:17:03
Sam Rashkin: And so this is what I do with housing 2.0 almost chapter by chapter for each of the experiences for optimizing community design, performance, quality and sales, I tabulate the true costs for optimizing the user experience by again using all those techniques for for getting rid of complexity, getting rid of waste for mass customization and so forth. And here in the high performance home, I took the numbers from the chapter in that book.

01:36:17:04 - 01:36:43:17
Sam Rashkin: And for doing efficient and smart, the utility cost savings are 25 to $60,000 over 30 years. The savings on smaller HVAC equipment and duct system layouts and so forth is 2 to $3000. The maintenance savings meant managing and mitigating moisture issues and so forth, and using stronger assemblies is 15 to $30,000. The superior comfort is worth 10 to 20,000.

01:36:43:19 - 01:37:23:22
Sam Rashkin: Health savings is worth 30 to $40,000, almost as much as the energy. The way I got the health cost savings is. The average household expense per year at a pocket is about $600 a year, and I assume we could reduce it 30 one third 33%. When you have comprehensive, source control of contaminants, whole house, fresh air ventilation and hospital grade filtration or Merv 13 filters and better, I assume you can mitigate about a third of your health cost expenses out of pocket, so that was worth about 30 to 40,000 over 30 years.

01:37:23:23 - 01:37:46:27
Sam Rashkin: The savings almost match the energy. The value of the sick days was 10 to 15,000. And on future readiness resilience of about 10 to $90,000 over ten years in insurance savings, depending on which if you qualify for the fortified home program and insurance savings that accrue from that certification. Waterville savings are about 8 to 12,000 over 30 years.

01:37:46:29 - 01:38:13:15
Sam Rashkin: The cost savings with future solar and electric electric upgrade savings is 15 to 30,000. Supply disruption power savings are worth 17 to 20. This is mostly tied. What would be the cost of a gas generator to provide equivalent, supply disruption as a battery and solar system and the solar electric system production is about 20 to $97,000 over its lifetime.

01:38:13:15 - 01:38:48:24
Sam Rashkin: So very conservatively adding these numbers and discounting them, I come to about 100, $150,000 of benefits and value just for the homeowner. Beyond all the savings for the builder that we just talked about that that counted here. So this is all explained that we have to look at performance differently. We focused on enclosures today. But high performance enclosures can be done faster, better, cheaper and recognize I discounted the utility savings 50 to 60% that I got these from the hers reports.

01:38:48:24 - 01:39:15:03
Sam Rashkin: And Hers reports are benchmarked to the 2006 Iirc. Which way way overstates the energy savings for new construction compared to code construction? So anyone who does that as well tries you, you know, kind of calculate these numbers on their own. You got to recognize that hers index energy savings are fictitious for new homes. So just benchmark to it on a non-existent code anymore.

01:39:15:04 - 01:39:47:14
Sam Rashkin: The 2006 ICC. So here are some conclusions for today's discussion. One is that you're missing 15 to over 100% of total costs when you're trying to compare your choices of how to do high performance without a true cost comparison. Two if your designs are an optimized for the innovations in the design process, you're missing substantial impact on the net savings and added value.

01:39:47:18 - 01:40:23:18
Sam Rashkin: Again, another probably 100% of savings. You saw how much reduction we got when we optimized. And you also need to use you need to always use a true cost comparison to ensure your decisions are faster than a cheaper. It just is the only way to get to the right answer. So the key finding here is that as we keep trying to take an industry that has been massively resistant innovation and to adopt innovations, we have to be different new innovations with significant cost savings and enhanced value.

01:40:23:20 - 01:40:44:08
Sam Rashkin: Just don't make it through the normal bidding process. We have to do true cost bidding, absolutely essential to get to faster, better, cheaper. So this is the wrap up. I hope this made sense, Mike. We'll see if there are any questions or comments or whatever it may be or discussion.

01:40:44:10 - 01:41:24:22
Mike Collignon: Oh Sam, there are many, many questions we will get to. I do want to extend a couple of questions, though, to our guest, JD, because people had sent in questions for him as requested. So JD, the first question I wanted to send over your way is in regards to smart homes. The and this comes from Gregory, by the way, the Internet of Things is is known to have security issues, which results in a pathway to provide hackers to possibly park onto the homeowners router.

01:41:24:25 - 01:41:33:02
Mike Collignon: And he's curious if Schneider has addressed this in any way and with potentially third party confirmation.

01:41:33:04 - 01:41:59:08
JD: Yeah, that's a good question. Definitely a complicated question, but I'll try to have an easier answer. But a lot of our our equipment that we're putting into, you know, the the residential space, especially the energy monitor, things like that, you know, it does have its own secure cloud service servers. S 128 bit encryption. If you guys are familiar with that.

01:41:59:12 - 01:42:24:18
JD: We do use Amazon Web Services for some of them. So you know, obviously their security is is part of it. But another piece is actually with our wiring devices and eventually, you know, I think as as this continues to grow, we'll see it trickle in into into other products too. But if you're familiar with Matter Matters, kind of like, like a unifying language that is, you know, for any, any smart devices out there, right?

01:42:24:19 - 01:42:50:05
JD: Whether you're an Apple HomeKit user, whether you're an Amazon Alexa user. Right. Matter kind of is a is a unifying language that if a product is matter compliant, it's going to work with any of those pieces. And and Google's Amazon's even Schneider Electric is part of building this matter, you know, protocol and the security behind it. So I think there's a lot of players finally realizing that security is very important.

01:42:50:06 - 01:43:11:29
JD: Right. So I think with this matter protocol, which we will have in our wiring devices here in about a month or so, I think that as matter continues to grow, more or more appliances or smaller products, smart home products get added to that matter platform. I think we'll definitely see that security, you know, become even better.

01:43:12:01 - 01:43:31:04
Mike Collignon: Okay. And then we also had a question from Crenna she wanted to ask specifically on your smart panels with the apps, how obsolescence proof is it these apps going to work in, say, 15 years?

01:43:31:06 - 01:43:57:04
JD: Yeah, that's a great question. Obviously, we're going to continue to improve our products, you know, as the years go on. So that is it goes without saying. And that also applies to our to our app performance as well too. So the apps will continue to get updated as, as with any you know, think of your your phone for example, you know as a new newer features come up to date in newer products.

01:43:57:06 - 01:44:22:27
JD: Perhaps older generations of the products won't work the same way, you know, in terms of the software, right? But that's not to say that we won't support it. So long winded answer is, as long as the features that that are there today will be supported. But any future enhancements in terms of features on newer products that may not roll into the older, older products that are being released today.

01:44:22:29 - 01:44:59:16
Sam Rashkin: Hey, I could chime in. You know, if you're in the marketplace today and you're worried about something changing technology wise in the future, you would probably wind up not buying anything because everything's changing. And so what I know is with my car, with my computer, with almost any technology I own, it's getting constantly updated by the manufacturer provider in real time because it's just part of what you almost any technology you buy will have automatic updates, so I expect that's kind of the same.

01:44:59:17 - 01:45:02:06
Sam Rashkin: You'll see with your products.

01:45:02:08 - 01:45:22:16
JD: Yeah, exactly. Thanks. Thanks. Yeah. No for sure. And also, you know, obviously Schneider has been around for 100 plus years now, so we're not going anywhere. You know, we're we're a big player in the electrical space. You know, we're not a newcomer. So there's also that longevity, that history behind us as well.

01:45:22:18 - 01:45:42:16
Mike Collignon: Yeah I was actually going to ask that to as you know, Snyder's been around for quite a while. I haven't aged. So thanks for for contributing a little bit of that history too, because I know that's a key thing. It's not just a fly by night company. They're very stable. So thank you, JD. I don't I don't have any more questions right now for JD.

01:45:42:17 - 01:45:50:05
Mike Collignon: But boy Sam, you better buckle in because we got a lot of questions for you.

01:45:50:07 - 01:45:53:09
Sam Rashkin: JD's questions were.

01:45:53:12 - 01:46:11:23
Mike Collignon: Well let's see, I don't know. First, I'm going to take one of the questions from Zoran, our friend from Canada. He wanted to know, first of all, is home electric readiness justified? If electricity is not green?

01:46:11:26 - 01:46:16:22
Sam Rashkin: Yes. And that's because.

01:46:16:24 - 01:46:41:13
Sam Rashkin: Electric technologies are a better experience. And I think every home should be ready to keep improving the user experience, which is why the aforementioned question about, well, the apps keep updating. They have to because the experiences will keep getting better. But yeah, today may want to cook with gas, but eventually going to figure out that induction cooking is like half the time to boil water.

01:46:41:13 - 01:47:18:10
Sam Rashkin: It's like ten times more precise on levels. It's like ten times safer not to have hot surfaces around the kitchen, because as soon as I pull the cooking device, the cooking surface has no heat basically to the touch. And it is like no emissions. It's just insanely better experience. And if all it cost me to be able to switch to that induction cooking is to put a 20 amp outlet instead of instead of a 15 amp outlet next to the at the device, because you need hardly any power for the igniter.

01:47:18:10 - 01:47:55:27
Sam Rashkin: For a gas cooktop, that's a minor future ready investment, and the same thing with heat pump water heating and the same thing with advanced heat pumps. Just these innovations that are happening with electric technology are so much quicker than with fossil fuels. So you're just justified and just being ready to adapt to them. It's a minor cost. It's an incredibly minuscule insurance cost to be able to have a much better experience in your house as time goes on.

01:47:56:00 - 01:48:19:06
Mike Collignon: All right. Speaking of insurance, we had a question about insurance from Ralph. He wanted to know if you know who are some of the insurers that are offering resilience insurance savings, and how do you match the strategies, like the construction design strategies with the savings that they offer?

01:48:19:09 - 01:48:46:02
Sam Rashkin: What I know is when I've checked in with Institute for business, Home Safety and the Fortified Home program, I found the range of insurance savings are about 25 to 60% with the fortified home certifications that are available again for how roofs are installed and sheer strength and continuous path loading.

01:48:46:04 - 01:49:10:19
Sam Rashkin: Details. So there are a number of things you do and then essentially qualify for these discounts. And when the insurance costs that used to be a few thousand a year now are hitting 12, 15,000 a year. Those are huge savings. So let's say you're saving three, 4 or 5000 a year on insurance cost. That is roughly 3 to 400, $450 a month.

01:49:10:20 - 01:49:45:00
Sam Rashkin: That overwhelms anything that you're getting from your energy savings, which would typically be from a code home about 25 to $30 a month for Energy Star, maybe 40 to 60 a month at best, with zero ready. So insurance savings can be the big the big reason for doing the resilient construction, you know, even if it costs an extra $15,000, that's adding $90, $80 a month after taxes to your bill, saving $3,400 a month on insurance.

01:49:45:02 - 01:50:20:18
Sam Rashkin: Now, that's a big number. So resilience is going to be a huge payoff. And people have to start looking for numbers because it is way, way more compelling than the energy efficiency investments we're making, which themselves are good because the positive cash flow, but they're not close to what insurance can be. But I don't know the names of the insurance companies per say, go to the fortified home website and there'll be details probably link you to the insurance companies that provide these discounts.

01:50:20:20 - 01:50:46:10
Mike Collignon: And I don't have their website memorized. However, what I put in the chat box for everyone to see is the name of the organization, its acronym, and also the name of the program. So all that information, you should be able to find their site and details about their members, their programs and all that. It's really the only insurance program out there that has to do with construction, so I definitely encourage you to look at it as well.

01:50:46:13 - 01:50:54:16
Mike Collignon: Deborah had a question. What are some manufacturers of the thin triple pane windows?

01:50:54:18 - 01:51:21:10
Sam Rashkin: You know, they changed the name Skip me. I knew all three when I was at IBS and then I forgot I met Eireann Smith and tell me who the new players were. You used to be Panasonic, alpine and who the third was going to be, but it turns out three other manufacturers have stepped up. If you go and search on thin triple windows, I'm sure I'll come up just from a search, but it's a good question.

01:51:21:10 - 01:51:24:21
Sam Rashkin: I just have to get the names.

01:51:24:23 - 01:51:26:21
Mike Collignon: It's one of them. Alpen.

01:51:26:23 - 01:51:55:04
Sam Rashkin: It used to be what Aaron told me was something like $0.50 a square foot is a premium for the thin triple. So if your window, let's say it's five by three, is 15 square foot, that's like $8 premium for the window. That's insane. For R7 window that is so cost effective. And that's going to increase your whole world R value 30 or 3540%.

01:51:55:08 - 01:52:06:05
Sam Rashkin: And it's only an extra $8 per window. Oh my goodness. That is a huge return on investment.

01:52:06:08 - 01:52:25:16
Mike Collignon: Speaking of insulation and walls, Zoran had a question about rigid insulation sheathing. Does it need structural backup like plywood or OSB? And if the answer to that is yes, is the plywood or OSB is supposed to be against the studs.

01:52:25:18 - 01:52:53:00
Sam Rashkin: It doesn't typically is, but it doesn't need it. You know, a lot of the for in California for years they've been doing the two coat stucco on continuous insulation nailed right to the studs through the water control layer. So you don't need it unless you need the shear. So typically in most places, sheathing is therefore shift shear resistance.

01:52:53:00 - 01:52:56:11
Sam Rashkin: And so.

01:52:56:13 - 01:53:05:24
Sam Rashkin: You nailed directly to that. Otherwise you get to studs.

01:53:05:26 - 01:53:14:22
Mike Collignon: And then Jennifer wanted to know where do we find these details supporting high performance goals that are being shared.

01:53:14:25 - 01:53:34:11
Sam Rashkin: Well housing 2.0 is out there doing a lot. I think just the certification programs are promoting prescriptive what you want to do. I think what we do uniquely here is try to share the solutions that are getting faster, better, cheaper. We're not tethered to.

01:53:34:13 - 01:54:07:17
Sam Rashkin: Constraints of being in a government setting where we can't. We can't share certain preferences and observations that might be less product neutral or technology neutral or fuel neutral, where we see a benefit we shared. So the trouble with trouble is, when you go to any kind of training that comes right from an Energy Star program or or zero energy home program, they will be tied to being technology and fuel neutral, product neutral.

01:54:07:17 - 01:54:34:24
Sam Rashkin: So we we tend to do homework to identify solutions that work. And lot of others do as well. We're not the only source but do look for do look for experts out there who are able to speak freely, but also be aware where, you know, there might be some other financial relationships that may slant the recommendations one way or the other.

01:54:34:25 - 01:54:38:06
Sam Rashkin: You have to always be cautious.

01:54:38:08 - 01:54:44:02
Mike Collignon: And some of the images that you were sharing on your slide. Sam, are they found in your book?

01:54:44:04 - 01:55:11:05
Sam Rashkin: No, I'd say at least 60% are found in the book. As with almost everything I do, I don't do the same lecture twice ever. I keep updating everything and eventually just keep getting more and more new material. But the book is an amazing resource because it is the only place that puts the entire framework for how to do better homes for lower cost in a comprehensive reference document.

01:55:11:05 - 01:55:36:13
Sam Rashkin: And if if few of the images or 10% of the images are not the latest ones I use, it's not. It's just because I'm a perfectionist and I like to keep upgrading my my, my images quite a bit. But the book is so powerful. Curation of just everything, I think able to learn for decades of observing the industry.

01:55:36:13 - 01:55:43:01
Sam Rashkin: So that's that. I know if the images don't match up, it's still a great reference.

01:55:43:04 - 01:56:00:16
Mike Collignon: And to your point, Sam, about, you know, kind of being able to speak freely, I know you're a big fan of Superior Walls. Zoran wanted to let you know those precast foundations that they do have not been approved in Canada yet. So I'm sorry to break the news to you, Sam, but.

01:56:00:19 - 01:56:23:29
Sam Rashkin: And let's also mention Superior Wall is not a sponsor for housing 2.0, nor has any low window sponsor housing 2.0. No, we. Our recommendations are purely based on merit, ones that we love our sponsors products a lot, which is why we go after so much to get them on board. So if we mention them, it's because we proactively reach out to those kinds of companies.

01:56:23:29 - 01:56:34:04
Sam Rashkin: But we we speak a lot about products and technologies that may or may not be directly helping support our program.

01:56:34:07 - 01:56:53:05
Mike Collignon: Another topic that I know is near and dear to your heart, Sam, are. And both Karina and Zoran wanted to kind of know, hey, what's the deal with CIPs? How come builders aren't using them more often? How come they aren't standard construction? They've been around a long time. What's going on here?

01:56:53:08 - 01:57:19:07
Sam Rashkin: Well, that is a great question. And the answer is I think it's the business model that CIP industry uses is not conducive to crossing from the early adopters to mainstream builders, right? Early adopters will take on lots of additional burden. They'll take on a lot of additional requirements to figure things out themselves. And a lot of the manufacturers just want to ship panels.

01:57:19:07 - 01:57:42:01
Sam Rashkin: And then you got to get a framing contractor to learn to set them, or electrician to learn to wire them. You have to learn how to get the foundation contractor to build a dead level foundation. So the rest of the house is this perfectly dimensionally accurate product. So, you know, it's not a whole product solution where you go and the manufacturer comes and builds the entire enclosure for you.

01:57:42:04 - 01:58:06:03
Sam Rashkin: So because you have to learn to use a technology that's a big, big barrier for a lot of builders. Now they you know, the building industry is as just doesn't want to own any part of the construction process. They outsource everything to do with construction. So they have the most resources left to acquire land. So they don't build anything.

01:58:06:03 - 01:58:35:12
Sam Rashkin: They don't own any trades. And so unless the CIP industry functions as both the provider of the panels and the trade and builds enclosure, that is a kind of disconnect with what builders will normally accept and do. So CIPs has been flatlined like a very small percentage of the net market for housing, but it's I think it's on a little bit of a surge in growth.

01:58:35:14 - 01:59:01:12
Sam Rashkin: I'm working hard to help the industry really find solutions to go to market. This true cost calculation system is a big first step to first clarifying and translating the value of the product, but part of it is the industry's business model itself. So I work very closely with the industry. Very frank with them is, you know, it's okay to stay at your current market penetration and do the business what you do.

01:59:01:14 - 01:59:14:03
Sam Rashkin: If you do desire to grow as an industry, think about these whole product solutions and as a way to really cross the chasm and get to the mainstream builders better.

01:59:14:06 - 01:59:33:09
Mike Collignon: Well, I kind of set you up, Sam, because we do have a series of questions for you. So we're going to we're going to keep on this topic for a little while here. So Matt had a question. He wanted to know if you can talk a little bit about the potential problems and solutions with joints between SIP panels.

01:59:33:09 - 01:59:43:02
Mike Collignon: And he also had another question about how is the air gap behind the cladding achieved with SIPs.

01:59:43:05 - 02:00:14:06
Sam Rashkin: Okay, so two part question is the joints between panels and then the air gap to between the cladding and the panel itself. So first the joints themselves are incredibly superior to anything in frame construction. The most common detail will be two panels. The insulation has a slight groove on the inside face and the outside face, or outside skin, and the inside skin with the insulation instead of being right up against it.

02:00:14:06 - 02:00:47:04
Sam Rashkin: There's a little bit of a groove on each panel in which you insert this spline on both sides. It's maybe a half inch by five inch spline that goes in, so that's what you're screwing to attach the panels. Splines. Just signs slides in. So you're you're getting a whole bunch of incredibly inherent airtight construction benefits. You have the thermal construction, which is absolutely perfect grade one insulation with no vapor flow.

02:00:47:06 - 02:01:08:17
Sam Rashkin: Then on top of that, they first put in a very significant sealant between the butt end of the insulation that's going to be hitting the next panel insulation. So the insulation seal to each other. Then you have the splines which also kind of block airflow. And often they tape the joints as well so that you have sealing and tape.

02:01:08:18 - 02:01:41:19
Sam Rashkin: You have the splines and it's just incredibly effective. At corners, the panel will just screw through the edge of one into the until the end of the other panel to attach to a corner. I really recommend that people go to the seaport website. There's some amazing resource materials that show all the details of CIPs and the attachments, and how you know all the best practices for for using these systems and design guidelines.

02:01:41:24 - 02:02:12:09
Sam Rashkin: You'd be amazed how much great information there is. But SIPs attach and assemble incredibly airtight. The belt and suspenders, which lead to the 1.01.1 ACH 50 number, as you see, was routinely on CIP homes and then on the on. Because you have the sheathing, the air gap is so much easier and low cost, right? I don't have to have it installed over a continuous insulation and hope I find the stud and figure all that out.

02:02:12:09 - 02:02:34:26
Sam Rashkin: All you do is you buy a thin foam air gap strip dow. You know DuPont sells these, I believe. And they're they're about an inch and a half wide by a quarter inch thick. It's just a foam strip, much lower cost than the wood strip. And just you just staple and nail it to the sheathing every 16in on center, 24in in center.

02:02:34:28 - 02:02:53:15
Sam Rashkin: And you have your air gap. And so when you first you put on over the CIP, you put the weather resistant barrier over that. Then you put on your occurring strips and you always have a sheathing that you'll hit with those. And it doesn't need to hit the hit the studs. And then you put on the cladding on top of the strip.

02:02:53:19 - 02:03:11:12
Sam Rashkin: So it's a very elegant system. It's very low cost. It's very it's much quicker. You don't have to find studs. And because it's so thin, you don't have to worry about getting to extra thicknesses. We need to use screws instead of nails.

02:03:11:14 - 02:03:46:18
Mike Collignon: So Brendan wants to know if there's any. Have there been any long term studies on SIP homes? And here's why. He's got a bit of a concern. His concern in regards to repair ability to the ability to renovate with sips. He he just finished a job where the SIP roof had leaked. It damaged the outer layer of the sheathing, but so much so that the structure of the SIP was compromised, and the manufacturer and the engineer both said that it was unreliable.

02:03:46:20 - 02:03:55:26
Mike Collignon: And so just, I don't know if you could knew of any long term studies or anything like that.

02:03:55:28 - 02:04:35:14
Sam Rashkin: There are two risk factors with SEPs. One is more coming from the inside because you have this incredible driving force and pressure right up at the ridge, where all the stack effect is accumulating at its greatest. And you have you have to make sure that detail were the two panels meet at the ridge is bulletproof. And normally what you do is you drape over the ridge beam something much like a house wrap material, and you seal that to the sheathing surface and you mitigate the vapor flow potential.

02:04:35:14 - 02:05:16:28
Sam Rashkin: That can happen with the ridge beam. But again, it's stunning that anyone would cheapen out on proven details for how you can keep that from happening. The vapor flow from inside through the ridge joint and then condense on the top roof surface and virtually destroy the top sheathing the structure. This is what happened in Juneau, Alaska, where you have the most egregious climate, and you had a famous SIP failure because of vapor got through and it went through the ridge, and it just destroyed the structural outboard layer of the roof sheeting, starting from the ridge and dripping down the roof line.

02:05:16:28 - 02:05:42:07
Sam Rashkin: So that's moisture coming from the inside. There's no excuse for moisture getting in from the outside. You know, the flashing details we have today are just tried, proven details. I wrote my roof off twice on a house I'm living in. Twice won. The first time was I think the roof hadn't been replaced in 30 years. The second time was maybe 20 years.

02:05:42:10 - 02:06:05:19
Sam Rashkin: Hail damage and damage the roof. I've never had a speck of moisture on the roof sheathing on my homes. It's a it's a simple roof shed roof. It's easy to detail of managed water. If you're going to create these incredibly complex roof designs, you're violating the function of the roof itself, which is, again, to shed weather, and you're going to create conditions where leakage can happen.

02:06:05:19 - 02:06:29:12
Sam Rashkin: That's on you. I wouldn't want that with SIPs or frame construction. It's going to be expensive either way, but we know how to build roofs that will just have no moisture damage. And I don't know why. What happened? You had to do something so flagrantly unprofessional to create a condition where motion can happen. We know how to flash.

02:06:29:12 - 02:06:51:02
Sam Rashkin: We know how to do the roof protection with with the underlayment and with the roofing itself and the flashing details and drip, drip, edge flashing and capillary breaks. This this is this is routine. So there should be zero risk of moisture getting in through the roof from the outside. And again the inside. You have to know the details to do it.

02:06:51:02 - 02:07:09:01
Sam Rashkin: The ridge just to protect the stack effect pressure up against it. So if you're countering a problem, I will say that's a stunning error and omission by either the architect or the builder who built the home.

02:07:09:03 - 02:07:19:08
Sam Rashkin: It's not the reason. It's the reason to be diligent about doing it correctly.

02:07:19:10 - 02:07:49:23
Mike Collignon: I want to stick with just a little bit more because Deborah had a question about them. Are there still cost savings with one story homes where the insulation would be high up at the roof? Or is there like a maximum footprint size for cost effectiveness? Because because she's thinking of it as it seems like if you have a larger one story footprint, there might be additional costs, unless they're all footprints.

02:07:49:25 - 02:07:59:09
Mike Collignon: But she is a fan. I mean, she thinks that one half story homes would be ideal for SIPs, but talk a little about the cost savings. But one story homes.

02:07:59:12 - 02:08:25:23
Sam Rashkin: No cost savings are agnostic or indifferent to one story, two story or size. The biggest factors that contribute to cost effectiveness for SIPs will be, again, simple roofs versus complex roofs. Two foot dimensions are great, but not critical. If you have plumbing on outside walls, you're going to want to burn out your plumbing and not put the plumbing in the SIP wall.

02:08:25:25 - 02:08:50:04
Sam Rashkin: So you want plumbing on interior walls as much as possible. You want to, there are some excessive window opening sizes where even in a jumbo panel, you might not be able to get a certain window size without some additional structure. You know, there's some basic guidelines that will be putting together, and I'll tell people to go at the website and check those out.

02:08:50:11 - 02:08:58:21
Sam Rashkin: But, you know, this is like,

02:08:58:23 - 02:09:33:05
Sam Rashkin: Like I said, indifferent to size. The costs work either way. It's the question is simply accounting. You know, you're you're displacing your you're adding costs for an advanced assembly versus framing, but you're saving costs and insulation. You're saving costs on your ceiling. You're saving costs on quality control. You're saving costs on finishes, your saving costs on time. And when you put all that together and run the calculus and look at the numbers, then you get your answer.

02:09:33:08 - 02:09:48:00
Sam Rashkin: I did find that the number of savings numbers did seem to be bigger on multifamily versus single family. That was that was something I will say stood out for me when I run some case studies.

02:09:48:02 - 02:10:12:29
Sam Rashkin: But the big thing is, you don't want to have your design so disconnected from the SIP panel logistics that you still need tons of posts and columns and all these things happening in the walls because you didn't design it for the sips. So that's the biggest takeaway I say about cost, just optimized for SIPs.

02:10:13:02 - 02:10:45:19
Mike Collignon: We're going to move away from SIPs. Now, we got a question from Gregory about passive House. His comment was that, you know, it's got a built in verification which can address many of the reliability and trust issues that you were mentioning earlier. But he he does have a disagreement with you on one thing. One of your slides talked about changing the air ceiling value of passive House from point 6 to 1 and a half.

02:10:45:22 - 02:10:49:16
Mike Collignon: He disagrees with that. Any any response to that?

02:10:49:18 - 02:11:17:06
Sam Rashkin: That's not what I said. I said if I'm a builder, if I'm in the building industry, instead of having a spaghetti of different ACH, 50 targets, I would do 1.5 ACH 50. I think that's where the industry can get to with a modicum of discipline. They can get the point six with a modicum of discipline. That's a whole sail transformation and huge.

02:11:17:08 - 02:11:53:18
Sam Rashkin: Infrastructure in terms of installation capabilities and so forth. 1.5 we can do that's. I believe more importantly, I can get to 1.5. I get to zero energy. I can get to your comfort, I can get to you quiet benefits. I can get to know utility bills. I can get to amazing health benefits. So the benefit to go into point six and the more aggressive thermal control levels and passive house is mostly limited from my lens to the additional resilience because the house can float longer.

02:11:53:20 - 02:12:22:22
Sam Rashkin: And if that's worth all the extra cost to you, great, then do it. You know, passive House stands as the epitome of of what you could do in terms of the most rigorous certification program for energy efficient performance. That's the most rigorous. I personally don't go that far. I don't need as much insulation under the slab. I don't think I need as much wall insulation.

02:12:22:24 - 02:12:47:27
Sam Rashkin: I, I would make my investments elsewhere, but that's my way, I cringe. The number is what I get to what I'm seeing. Zero energy ready homes far below the passive house requirements have no energy bill, even though they use all the electricity for both the house and the car. And the house is amazing when I've been inside the home and how it lives.

02:12:47:27 - 02:13:09:12
Sam Rashkin: And so I'm going, that's good enough for me, but pick your own level. There's no right answer. If you want to do passive House, that's great if you make the numbers work. I'm trying to work with mainstream builders. That's always been my target. I want to get mainstream builders to build great houses. I'd be real excited if we all did 1.5 15 less.

02:13:09:14 - 02:13:26:07
Sam Rashkin: Passive house is is always room for something to be the penultimate highest level. And that I think passive House kind of just enjoy being that for energy efficient performance.

02:13:26:09 - 02:13:41:10
Mike Collignon: And Ralph asked, I see about the ACH 50 number that you had. He wrote to know how you came up with it. Is is it an estimate? Is it from an energy model based on component options or something else entirely?

02:13:41:12 - 02:14:13:12
Sam Rashkin: Generally, it's from you know, I've had the ability, I had the privilege running two national programs to virtually travel 46 different states, see thousands and thousands of home builders worth of projects, tens of thousands of homes worth of construction, actually under and after completion of construction and and and observe actual utility bills and performance and how and how homes live at various different levels.

02:14:13:17 - 02:14:41:10
Sam Rashkin: And I come away when I look at numbers and I look at everything I've seen. 1.5 seems to work. You know, you can knock yourself out and put in tens of thousands of hours trying to get to a perfect number, but 1.5, just with whatever wisdom I've acquired and understanding that seems to be the number that works for me as the mainstream builder target that I would advocate today if no other reason.

02:14:41:10 - 02:14:52:18
Sam Rashkin: Again, these advanced wall systems get get you there automatically. And I think we undervalue air ceiling because we.

02:14:52:21 - 02:15:13:03
Sam Rashkin: Only look at it from the energy loss side of the equation when we come up with those targets for the various climate zones. But in every climate zone, you want to keep all those contaminants outside and you want also the extra resilience. So just let's all go to 1.5.

02:15:13:06 - 02:15:31:02
Mike Collignon: All right Sam, final question is for Zoran. He wanted to know our batteries common only with solar systems. Or can they be used for either peak shaving or load shedding?

02:15:31:04 - 02:16:21:01
Sam Rashkin: Yes to. They can be used for peak shaving and load shedding. The economics vary by each application. And it depends. You know, if you're if you're in a time of use. Utility rate situation for residential and and you know you're looking at 20 plus ten an hour for peak and you're looking at $0.03 an hour, $0.04 an hour for off peak, if I can, if I can charge off peak at $0.03 a kilowatt hour and sell back to the grid at at retail rate at $0.20 an hour, sometimes those economics just justify batteries by themselves, and they utility comes out of winter because it mitigates the need to build that extra peak power plant that's

02:16:21:01 - 02:16:55:21
Sam Rashkin: very expensive to run. That's a huge benefit for them. However, the best way of looking at the economics for me is I see more and more people like installing gas, natural gas generators, which, during power failure kick in and provide power during supply disruption. And they emit a lot of emissions, sometimes so much so that they've really endangered people living in the House as emissions that were seeking to the house, with the generator in close proximity.

02:16:55:23 - 02:17:26:05
Sam Rashkin: And the cost is pretty high. A natural gas generator will be anywhere from 13 to $18,000. You have to tune it up once a year, few hundred dollars. You've got to run it every month for X number of hours just to keep it operational. There's a lot going on with a gas generator. If I have just a battery and I mitigate all that, and it can be charged by a complementary solar system, I may have a just a really cost effective way to go.

02:17:26:07 - 02:17:45:19
Sam Rashkin: That's far better than the cost of that natural gas generator. Remember, I keep saying the electric technologies user experience will keep, I think, surpassing the fossil fuel options that are out there. So I think the choices will go in that direction.

02:17:45:22 - 02:18:01:01
Mike Collignon: All right, Sam, checking to see if we have any final questions. We we've hit them. There's certainly comments that have been shared but thank you all. So.

02:18:01:03 - 02:18:26:11
Mike Collignon: I certainly want to thank our audience for asking all these wonderful questions. And there was one that came in that I'll get to JD over at Snyder Electric. So thank you certainly, everyone, for sending your questions. We really do appreciate you attending. And this is the end of our third seminar, but that means we're only halfway through. We still got three more to go.

02:18:26:12 - 02:18:49:29
Mike Collignon: And in fact, our next seminar is going to take place two weeks from today. That's Thursday, March 21st at the usual start time of 2 p.m. eastern. We're going to be discussing five low to no cost best practices to help you get to zero. So thank you so much for attending today. Thank you once again to Schneider Electric and certainly JD Gill for joining us.

02:18:50:04 - 02:19:05:14
Mike Collignon: Ginko Solar, Mitsubishi Electric and Panasonic Healthy Indoor Living Solutions for the generous sponsorships of this program. Until next time, don't forget to change your clocks this weekend. It's time to spring forward an hour. So stay safe, stay healthy and take care everyone so long.