Dish It Out!

00:00:02:29 - 00:00:25:06
Sara Gutterman: Hello everyone. I'm Sarah Gutman, CEO, Green Builder Media, and I am here today with Victoria Mirsky who is off camera, but she is our lead of our Today's Homeowner program and the Next Generation Influencer group, which I'll talk about in just a second, as well as Mary Kestner from our team. She is our wizard behind the curtain. She's our production manager.

00:00:25:06 - 00:00:53:03
Sara Gutterman: She makes it all happen. We would not be around without her. So thank you Victoria and Mary for being in the background today and making it all happen. I also really excited to present our speaker today, and I'll talk about her in just a second. But before I do again, I want to thank you all for attending. We have these regular discussions with our Next Generation influencer group.

00:00:53:03 - 00:01:24:15
Sara Gutterman: For those of you who have participated in it now for a few years, know that this is just a great group of individuals, young professionals who are doing extraordinary things in sustainability and we love to hear from you. We also love to provide relevant and topical information that you tell us is important to you. And I think today's discussion about dietary choices and the carbon impact that those dietary choices have is really near and dear to us.

00:01:24:17 - 00:01:56:18
Sara Gutterman: It's also very near and dear to our sponsor, whirlpool, without whom all of this content would not be possible. So thank you, whirlpool, for being committed to be to being a sustainable global kitchen and laundry company. We know that you are constantly in the pursuit of improving life at home and in an increasingly digital world. Whirlpool drives purposeful innovation to meet the evolving needs of consumers through its iconic portfolio of brands from whirlpool to KitchenAid to Amana and others.

00:01:56:18 - 00:02:19:29
Sara Gutterman: So again, thanks to whirlpool for helping us bring this content to you today. I want to talk a little bit about food related food related trends with respect to our homes, because this is one reason why we really wanted to have this discussion today. In addition to the fact, again, that you all told us that this is an important topic.

00:02:19:29 - 00:02:47:09
Sara Gutterman: But when we look at our cognition smart data, which is our suite of market intelligence and data services, we've really seen over the last handful of years before the pandemic, but certainly during and after the pandemic, an increase in interest in the self-sufficiency of growing food at home, of also having more plant based diets or climate friendly diets.

00:02:47:09 - 00:03:16:25
Sara Gutterman: That's really been a trend, particularly amongst younger generations, millennials and Gen Zs. But we see that everything from water conservation and that food production are top elements of importance when planning for outdoor spaces. We also have some data that shows that the most important landscape elements now to younger homeowners in particular, but just homeowners across the board of all generations is actually edible.

00:03:16:25 - 00:03:45:04
Sara Gutterman: Plants and flowers with zero scaping and drought tolerant landscaping elements being second, and then garden beds being third. So clearly, you know, we have this empirical data that shows that that at home or on site food production is growing in importance. And again, along with that, a growing interest in healthy eating, healthy cooking and making those dietary decisions based on the carbon footprint of what we eat.

00:03:45:05 - 00:04:14:04
Sara Gutterman: It's just a very simple but essential daily choice that we can make to minimize our carbon footprint. We also see that as homeowners, particularly younger generations, are making decisions about where they want to live, having things like community gardens and proximity to space and walking trails and healthy homes has become of paramount importance. So again, it's not only that we like this topic and we care about what we eat.

00:04:14:05 - 00:04:50:09
Sara Gutterman: As the team at Green Builder Media and and clearly so do you. But also the data shows that there's an increasing interest in this topic area. So with that I'd like to shift gears. And I'd like to introduce Caroline Saunders, who is a freelance food writer obsessed with what will be eating in the climate era. Her writing has appeared on outlets like Grist and Smart Mouth and a variety of others, and she also writes a climate friendly baking newsletter called Pale Blue Tart, which I have subscribed to and I love it, so I highly recommend it.

00:04:50:10 - 00:05:21:24
Sara Gutterman: It's funny and clever and it's got some great recipes. She has a pastry diploma from Le Cordon Bleu in Paris, and she holds a bachelor's degree in English and environmental studies from Vanderbilt University. She has created and hosted the podcast The Sustainable. Baker co-wrote the book Kraft Beef A Revolution of Small Farms and Big Flavors, and has been the recipient of a writing residency sponsored by Leonardo DiCaprio's foundation, Earth Alliance.

00:05:21:25 - 00:05:25:26
Sara Gutterman: So with that, Caroline, I'm going to kick it over to you.

00:05:25:28 - 00:05:49:27
Caroline Saunders: Thank you. Sarah, I really appreciate that. And it's so nice to be here with you guys. Talking about the issue that I know is near and dear to many of us, how climate change and what we eat is connected. So yeah, I'm super excited to talk about that today, and particularly to get to do so through the lens of dessert, which is my favorite lens through which to view the entire world and life.

00:05:50:00 - 00:06:17:05
Caroline Saunders: So yeah, I, I wanted to say also just by way of background, like, I, I'm really compelled by the idea of the importance of climate, cuisine, this notion that, like, okay, if we actually want to evolve our diet to be more sustainable in ways that scientists and international organizations and people like that have told us we need to, there needs to be like something to run toward when we're talking about like culture change, diet change, cuisine change.

00:06:17:07 - 00:06:42:01
Caroline Saunders: And so I'm really interested in what chefs and recipe developers and bakers, the role that they have to play in that process, and even home cooks and home bakers too. Right. And so that's what drew me to this, this particular intersection that I'm now working in. And I have been focusing a lot on dessert just because I am a lifelong dessert devotee.

00:06:42:03 - 00:07:11:14
Caroline Saunders: So I thought we could start today by talking about some big picture in terms of how the food system affects climate change and stuff like that, and then get into some dessert specifics and then looking forward to seeing what that sparks for you guys and getting into questions. So yeah, I always like to start with this figure that continually astounds me, which is that the food system is responsible for more than a quarter of global greenhouse gas emissions annually.

00:07:11:18 - 00:07:35:12
Caroline Saunders: I just find that to be totally wild. It's really staggering. But it's also a huge opportunity. And the reason it's an opportunity is that as this organization, Project Drawdown, which does amazing climate research, has pointed out, things related to food are some of the most impactful potential climate solutions. They have this long list of climate solutions. They call it their table of climate solutions.

00:07:35:12 - 00:08:02:01
Caroline Saunders: And I just screenshot of the top five, the top two, which means they have the largest potential carbon savings. Both have to do with food. So reducing food waste and adopting plant rich diets are ways that we could make a huge positive climate impact. And while both of those things I like to, you know, make sure to point out, have important systemic like policy dimensions to them.

00:08:02:01 - 00:08:21:08
Caroline Saunders: In other words, they will be a lot more possible with help from the government, from business, etc. but at the same time, there are also things that you and I have a significant role to play on and they intersect with daily choices. I'm going to double click on each of those a little bit so you can kind of see what we're talking about.

00:08:21:11 - 00:08:46:26
Caroline Saunders: So in terms of why plant rich diets are really great for the climate and for reducing our carbon footprints, I wanted to show you this table. This is by a climate data scientist named Hannah Rishi. I'm sure some of you are familiar with. She just published a great new book. Her this table of looking at carbon footprints by ingredients, shows me a couple main things.

00:08:46:26 - 00:09:03:29
Caroline Saunders: There are a couple of things that pop out at me. Number one is, just as you can see the bottom, like half the things that are really small are the plant based ingredients. Right. So that's one really clear thing, another thing that jumps out at me, look all the way at the top. Beef is way more carbon intensive than anything else.

00:09:03:29 - 00:09:30:03
Caroline Saunders: And so red meat, in other words, all animal products are created equal in terms of their carbon footprint and even just reducing how much red meat and b in particular that you consume, and opting for lower intensity proteins like chicken like eggs can have really important and meaningful carbon savings. And so that's something that I think about in my own diet.

00:09:30:04 - 00:09:51:12
Caroline Saunders: And then there's another weirder thing on this chart that I wanted to be sure to point out to, because it gets into some of the nuance and complexity of our food choices and how we shop. Look at chocolate. If you can see this tiny writing, it's like the fifth one down. Dark chocolate, in particular, is something with a surprisingly and depressingly high carbon footprint.

00:09:51:12 - 00:10:23:20
Caroline Saunders: I hate this, I hate that this is true, but it's an important, point of thing to understand. Because if you look at actually how this researcher has shaded the colors and explained why the carbon footprint is quite high, it's it's largely green. Right. And that's about deforestation and land use change. And the fact that when you cut down a part of a forest to transform it into agriculture, and particularly something that's monographie that releases a ton of emissions into the atmosphere.

00:10:23:20 - 00:10:45:27
Caroline Saunders: And so I bring this up because chocolate is one of the ingredients, along with things like palm oil and coffee, where sourcing really matters. And what you buy at the grocery store matters. Your chocolate, your palm oil, your whatever else will have a significantly way lower carbon footprint if you can source it from deforestation free sources when you can swing that in your budget.

00:10:45:27 - 00:11:18:07
Caroline Saunders: I do not do that all the time, but just really interesting things there. So let's talk a little bit more about food waste now. So food waste is such a climate problem and a climate opportunity because it, you know, on the one hand contributes to almost a 10th of global greenhouse gas emissions. I think that's totally wild, like just food that we grow and then let rot instead of eating is responsible for almost a 10th of our climate problem.

00:11:18:09 - 00:11:40:19
Caroline Saunders: And so part of that comes from the fact that there's just a lot of inputs wasted along sort of the food value chain when you ultimately waste food. And part of it is because of methane that's generated in landfills. And so while preventing food waste in the third place in the first place is always the best move.

00:11:40:22 - 00:12:15:19
Caroline Saunders: And you can see that on this little like food waste choices pyramid that the EPA put together on the right, composting is still a really valuable choice compared to sending stuff to the landfill. And so that's why having a compost bin in your home, if you can figure out how to swing, that is really valuable. There is a study that came out last year that said that if food was sent to, was not sent to landfills, and was sent to compost facilities instead, landfill emissions would be reduced by up to 84%.

00:12:15:22 - 00:12:37:16
Caroline Saunders: So again, a vote for compost. But yeah. So food waste huge opportunity. And I wanted to I wanted to start with those two issues of food waste and using plant rich ingredients, adopting plant rich diets, because those are the two sort of hats that I put on when I think about, what the heck does climate friendly baking mean?

00:12:37:18 - 00:13:16:28
Caroline Saunders: There are other things too, and we'll get into some of the more nuanced points in a bit. But but that's where I started. That is the bread and butter, if you will. And so I think first about when it comes to dessert, home cooking, home baking, the value of reducing food waste and figuring out ways to cook it and bake it away, in part because I think of it first, in part because, what's great about food waste is that you don't have to buy anything differently or do anything differently other than just use what's already in your home.

00:13:17:01 - 00:13:37:24
Caroline Saunders: And so it's one of the, I think, the lowest barrier to entry ways to just get into climate friendly home cooking and baking. And it's the, the thing that I try to do the most. And then I also think it's a particularly natural choice for thinking about how desert can help the climate, because if you think about it, dessert is one of the OG ways to preserve food.

00:13:37:25 - 00:14:18:18
Caroline Saunders: Like jam is arguably the original dessert and sweet, and was a way to preserve the harvest. So is pie. And so yeah, I'm always thinking about reducing food waste. And so I think about it in terms of dessert and recipes that I share on my newsletter, Pale Blue Tart. In a couple of ways. Number one, I'm really interested in dessert and baking recipes that started as thrifty, low waste things and have just been so honed by generations of bakers and home cooks that in some cases, we've forgotten their, like, thrifty roots.

00:14:18:21 - 00:14:35:15
Caroline Saunders: I think we should be celebrating recipes like that. And so I think of like, an almond croissant and the fact that a twice baked almond croissant is any baker will tell you, like, oh yeah, that's how we get rid of our day old croissants. And the rest of us who eat them are like, that's one of the best things on the menu.

00:14:35:18 - 00:14:59:29
Caroline Saunders: I think about, you know, creme brulée and sourdough French toast. This is from a cool restaurant. I shared this in the newsletter last week, but. So I think about these types of recipes and how we could be introducing home bakers to more things like that and like baking them myself. And then I also think about another category of recipes that are really cool to share, and I want to share with my friends and make more myself.

00:14:59:29 - 00:15:28:05
Caroline Saunders: I think about recipes, think about any fruit Grenada and how you could use any fading fruit, whether it's berries or melons that are going a little and turn them into Grenada. Or I think the same about this cake, where you can use not only any type of citrus to give it a little, but also any type of thick dairy like yogurt or sour cream to give it moisture.

00:15:28:12 - 00:15:48:01
Caroline Saunders: I'm interested in this type of recipe, and I think we should all be like trying to find more of these and bake more of these because they teach us about categories of ingredients and being able to function as home bakers with that kind of flexibility lets us just, like, turn to what we need to get rid of first and shopper kitchens first.

00:15:48:03 - 00:16:21:26
Caroline Saunders: So the other thing I mentioned that's big for climate friendly home baking is, you know, using plant rich ingredients. And this one's a little more complicated. I put in I put up here in yellow the carbon footprints of the animal products that are honestly like the basis of most Western and particularly American and also French baking. If you think about your favorite cakes, cookies, brownies, they likely have butter, which is pretty carbon intensive, or eggs or cream or milk.

00:16:21:29 - 00:16:48:23
Caroline Saunders: You can see that these are kind of middling in their carbon intensity, right? I'm interested in whether baking could get less carbon intensive by going a little bit closer to vegan. Although I'm not a vegan baker and I just do like some recipes. And I'm especially interested in it to the extent that, like, maybe we're using these animal products in the background in ways that are not necessarily always necessary.

00:16:48:24 - 00:17:12:18
Caroline Saunders: I'm interested in challenging that assumption of like, okay, where do we really need it? And where might be, where might we not, and where could there be savings that would be fine for desserts. And so I think again about like vegan of like classic desserts that actually really, really work well on the left is like an amazing vegan confetti cake from a blogger friend of mine that I shared on my newsletter a while ago.

00:17:12:19 - 00:17:31:05
Caroline Saunders: On the right is a vegan key lime pie. I'm interested in finding these other ways to the same textures that you know. In the case on the right, sweetened condensed milk typically provides. You can get that with tofu and coconut cream and have it actually result in something strikingly similar. But you can't do that for everything, right?

00:17:31:06 - 00:17:54:03
Caroline Saunders: So then the other thing that I'm, I'm really interested in, and I try to share a lot on my newsletter, is this idea of like dessert recipes that were plant based to begin with that come from food traditions around the world that might not have been so egg and dairy obsessed to begin with, and again, are just like meant to be plant based.

00:17:54:06 - 00:18:19:17
Caroline Saunders: We have a Filipino dish on the left called Bella below and on the right. I'm publishing this recipe in my newsletter next week by an amazing guest chef. This is a Lebanese pastry for Ramadan called ATF. So yeah, that's basically climate friendly. Baking at a glance is I'm trying to put all these pieces together, and I think that there are entry points for all of us, no matter what kind of baking you want to do.

00:18:19:18 - 00:19:04:23
Caroline Saunders: Super easy, super involved, super cheap, a little fancier. Like, I think there's always a place to start. There are other sort of environmental, climate friendly baking add ons that I think about to sometimes beyond these core ideas. One is, how could we support biodiversity through our food choices, through baking, through cooking? There are some pretty astounding figures out there about how much our current modern industrial food system has shrunk, agricultural biodiversity, and how much of a problem that is because it's essentially nature's built in insurance policy to have tons of plants should one fall to climate change or disease or whatever.

00:19:04:25 - 00:19:30:12
Caroline Saunders: And a relevant figure I like to talk about in the realm of baking is that more than 50% of our calories around the world come from just three staple grains wheat, rice, and maize. And you can see the wheat thing everywhere in the world of baking all purpose flour, bread, flour, like everything is wheat. And further, one more stat like 95% of the week.

00:19:30:12 - 00:19:51:20
Caroline Saunders: Growing around the world is one species. And so when I'm baking, I'm. Because grains play such a big role. Flour plays such a big role. I'm constantly thinking like, okay, is there biodiversity opportunity and also culinary and flavor opportunity if we just bake with more grains? So on the left here are some like really amazing oat biscuit spice.

00:19:51:20 - 00:20:15:10
Caroline Saunders: Crumbly rolls from an awesome baker. And on the right are talking bars made with a like super grain called Kunzea. Some of you might have heard of that is not only a perennial wonder grain that's totally worth looking up and reading about, but also tastes so butterscotch in and of itself that it can heighten things like toffee bars, cinnamon stuff, graham crackers.

00:20:15:12 - 00:20:53:12
Caroline Saunders: And so there's always culinary opportunity here. And so that's part of what's exciting to me about trying to build this sweet side of a climate. Cuisine is like, yeah, there's there's an environmental case here and there's a culinary case. Just really quickly, I also think about things like how regional sourcing could help when you can, you know, swing, getting your flour or whatever from regional sources, which I try to do occasionally when it works for my budget, can increase climate resilience in the sense of just having stronger food systems at all levels local, regional, national, international.

00:20:53:15 - 00:21:15:07
Caroline Saunders: If you guys recall, when the pandemic began and all the flour disappeared from the shelves, it was regional flour mills that kind of came to the rescue and were the ones that could supply flour for a while. And as climate shocks intensify here and there, it's going to be valuable also to have just like a strong, thriving food economy up and down, you know, the scales of the food system.

00:21:15:07 - 00:21:40:02
Caroline Saunders: And so again, that's kind of another like add on is regional sourcing can be good. And then, as you can tell, I think mostly about recipes, the composition of recipes, about ingredients and how they could be more sustainable. But it's also possible to take a step back and think about, okay, as a home cook, as a home baker, how could my environment around me in the kitchen also be more sustainable?

00:21:40:05 - 00:22:06:20
Caroline Saunders: And I think for one, as I'm sure many of you do, about just the magic and appeal in so many ways of induction stopes. I live in an apartment building with a gas stove. I have no control over an injection stove right now, but I hope to one day have one, both for the environmental benefits that they can confer and particularly will in the future as the US electric grid gets greener.

00:22:06:22 - 00:22:29:29
Caroline Saunders: Also the health benefits and then also the culinary benefits. One of the things that was interesting about being in pastry school in Paris was learning that culinary schools in Europe adopted induction stoves decades ago just because they cook better, specifically more evenly. And so for something like caramel making or candy making, it's just like a no brainer to chefs that you want an induction stove.

00:22:29:29 - 00:22:52:24
Caroline Saunders: So there's a culinary case too. And then I also think about like setting up a composting bin or system in your home. And I also try to think about try to think about reducing single use plastic use, which is a work in progress in my own life. But. Right. So there are lots of ways that our environment to can get a lot more sustainable.

00:22:52:27 - 00:23:16:21
Caroline Saunders: You know, I try to think expansively about what sustainable baking means. How could it also, you know, intersect with health and get healthier and writing a story on that right now? Think about other things like climate proof ingredients and would love to get into any and all of that, but I could. There's a real risk that I could chatter on forever.

00:23:16:21 - 00:23:24:28
Caroline Saunders: So I'm going to pause because I want to see if you guys have any questions or thoughts or if this sparked anything.

00:23:25:01 - 00:23:54:03
Sara Gutterman: Wow, Caroline, that was incredible. Thank you so much. You touched on so many topics that are near and dear to me. First of all, I think you ruined my life with a stat on chocolate. So dark chocolate in particular. So thanks a lot for that. But that's good to know. And I know, and I actually am really cognizant of the brands and the types of ingredients in general, particularly chocolate, that I choose.

00:23:54:06 - 00:24:18:27
Sara Gutterman: But thank you for that reminder. Also, my husband is gluten free and so we've gotten really creative, especially I'm the baker in the house. He's he's a great cook. I'm really lucky, but I'm the baker. So I've actually gotten very creative in terms of the types of ingredients that I use to replace wheat and, you know, all kinds of different kinds of ancient grains.

00:24:18:27 - 00:24:45:28
Sara Gutterman: And I've really been learning a lot from your newsletter about how to expand my own, baking recipes. So we have some questions. And then what I would also like is to invite the audience to chat in questions. So you have two options. Either you can just chat in your question and Victoria will ask that question to Caroline.

00:24:45:28 - 00:25:05:20
Sara Gutterman: Or what we can do is if you'd like to just ask your question yourself and maybe have a little bit of dialog with Caroline, Victoria can pass the mic to you. So I'm going to just ask a couple of the questions that that we have to give you all a few minutes to, to chat in your questions, but please do that now.

00:25:05:20 - 00:25:29:05
Sara Gutterman: And then again we'll in a few minutes we'll get to your questions in the meantime. Also, Caroline, I wanted to point out or just reiterate your comments about induction cooktops. They are amazing and it's really bewildering and befuddling to me that here in the US there has been a pushback against induction because they do cook so much better, more evenly.

00:25:29:08 - 00:25:55:14
Sara Gutterman: And, you know, in fact, in almost every discussion that we have with this next generation influencer group, someone brings up a comment like, why would I want to burn gas in my house? Like, why would I want to do that, you know, for indoor air quality implications? And I know I've gotten so sensitive to it that I can when a gas stove is on and I'm in that space, I really can smell it and I can feel it.

00:25:55:16 - 00:26:22:10
Sara Gutterman: So I think the increased awareness about induction is great. And I know again, for myself with respect to making just our kitchen environment more healthy, I have been slowly well, I've been replacing all of our pots and pans with PFAS, you know, on the Teflon coatings. And I've been slowly changing us over to La Cruz cookware just because it's amazing.

00:26:22:12 - 00:26:45:17
Sara Gutterman: It's like the induction cooktop of cookware, but, you know, it doesn't have any PFAS. So I know that's been really important to us. Yeah. But back to you. So tell us, how do you involve your friends and family in your efforts towards food sustainability? And any tips for our audience for inspiring others to join you on this journey?

00:26:45:20 - 00:26:57:21
Caroline Saunders: Oh, that's such a good question. I feel compelled to say, how don't I involve them? Because I am an insufferable proselytizing.

00:26:57:23 - 00:27:33:13
Caroline Saunders: Yeah. I mean, I think it helps when, like, since I write this newsletter and sometimes I'm developing my own sustainable baking recipes, and sometimes I'm even slightly more often I'm sharing them from other chefs and bakers who are contributing. I'm testing a lot. Right. And so I invite friends over and like force baked goods on friends all the time and then cannot help myself, but to talk about whatever the story is behind the ingredients, whether it's like oats in the Midwest are an important rotational crop or whatever the case may be.

00:27:33:16 - 00:28:05:20
Caroline Saunders: So I, you know, I think part of it is just like I, I'm often cooking with sustainability in mind, and then I just kind of want to talk about it over dinner, organically or over dessert, whatever I'm serving. And, you know, I think in terms of tips, I, I would also love to hear tips from you guys, but I think that part of the part of the reason that dessert is such an appealing medium to me to focus on is that it's friendly, right?

00:28:05:21 - 00:28:26:07
Caroline Saunders: Like, there's there's nothing less offensive than a slice of cake. And so I think like dessert in particular. But food in general is just such a great way to start conversations and might be a nice way if you're trying to talk to your family and friends about sustainability writ large, like maybe do so over dinner.

00:28:26:10 - 00:28:52:22
Sara Gutterman: I love that something else that you said that I wanted to comment on is you mentioned food waste and how important it is, given that Project Drawdown listed food waste as one of the most impactful ways that we can reduce our carbon footprint. Paul Hawken, the founder of Project Drawdown, was an early mentor of mine in the world of sustainability.

00:28:52:22 - 00:29:16:01
Sara Gutterman: As you know, he was one of the the OGs of sustainable business and just a sustainability ethic here in the US. And he's an incredible man, and he has presented it a couple of our annual sustainability symposiums. And one of them we actually hosted in Orlando. We used to host them in person before the pandemic, then took them virtual during the pandemic, and now they have remained virtual.

00:29:16:01 - 00:29:37:16
Sara Gutterman: Just because we can reach more people and allow more people to attend. So he's presented both in person and virtually. But I remember just it was right as he and his team were introducing Project Germantown and he was presenting on it. We were one of the first presentations that he was giving on Project Drawdown, and we served lunch before his presentation.

00:29:37:17 - 00:29:55:04
Sara Gutterman: And I remember eating and I had like a little, teeny bit left on my plate just because I was full and kind of nervous because I was the host, you know, the MC and he and again, I had known him already for, you know, 15 years, and he was a mentor. But he looked at me and he was like, don't do that.

00:29:55:04 - 00:30:19:16
Sara Gutterman: And he's such a lovely, gentle, sweet man. So for him to look at me and say, don't do that. I was like, I'm like, just petrified. But it was such a good reminder that, you know, when we cook, I think all of us like. And what you were just saying in terms of how do you like how you what you do, you everything you do involves your friends and family.

00:30:19:22 - 00:30:37:16
Sara Gutterman: And by the way, I want to be one of your friends now because I'm happy to be taster of anything that you say you bake. But, you know, I think that when we cook, I know for myself, like I like to cook enough to have leftovers. But there's also that consciousness of understanding how much do we actually need to cook?

00:30:37:16 - 00:30:59:04
Sara Gutterman: How much can we cook so that we can enjoy it for multiple meals? Or how can we repurpose those foods into something new? Whether it's the Allman croissants yummy or bench toast or whatever that is. And so it's really a new kind of way of thinking about not just what we cook and how we cook it, but how much we cook.

00:30:59:11 - 00:31:00:23
Sara Gutterman: So that's really neat.

00:31:00:25 - 00:31:02:24
Caroline Saunders: Totally.

00:31:02:26 - 00:31:03:14
Sara Gutterman: Yeah.

00:31:03:18 - 00:31:04:29
Caroline Saunders: I was just going to add, like.

00:31:05:00 - 00:31:24:15
Caroline Saunders: If that's something that any of you guys are thinking about, there have been two cookbooks that came out in the past. I think it was like mid 2023 that are just all about like reducing food waste and a really good almanacs for it. And one is called Perfectly Good Food and the other is called An Everlasting Meal by Tamar Adler.

00:31:24:16 - 00:31:41:22
Caroline Saunders: The former Perfectly Good Food is written by two amazing restaurateurs. I read in my, but they're really great resources that have a ton of ideas, a lot of those recipes, a lot of really specific recipe ideas. And they also come with like a heavy dose of like, look, none of us is perfect attitude. Like, we'll do it where we can.

00:31:41:22 - 00:31:44:10
Caroline Saunders: And I really appreciate that to.

00:31:44:12 - 00:32:07:11
Sara Gutterman: Absolutely. So I'm going to remind our audience to please chat in questions or if you just have some thoughts or ideas, even if they're not questions or as you can tell, I like to share my own cooking anecdotes. So if you have any anecdotes or stories or just thoughts that you want to share, please just type into the chat box that you do want to share and we'll give you the mic.

00:32:07:14 - 00:32:22:18
Sara Gutterman: In the meantime. Caroline, our next question is about any eco friendly kitchen gadgets or tools that help you reduce waste or energy consumption while cooking. Clearly you've talked about induction cooktops, but we'd love to hear your thoughts on this topic.

00:32:22:20 - 00:32:26:04
Caroline Saunders: Totally.

00:32:26:06 - 00:33:03:11
Caroline Saunders: You know, I think, I think I do think a lot about waste, especially since I'm testing recipes and always have, like many cookies on hand that I can't get through. I think a lot about storage and like how to organize my freezer and what types of containers should be in it that won't crack. And so yeah, I literally just think about like, how do I construct a cupboard, a fridge, a freezer with both of the right organization systems and the right?

00:33:03:13 - 00:33:31:06
Caroline Saunders: Yeah, literally containers that facilitate food savings and food use rather than food waste. So like on the organization front, I am really a big fan of the first in, first out system that a lot of restaurants use and that I think has shown up in lots of cool food waste books recently. That idea of just having a dedicated space in the top of your fridge that's super visible or whatever works for you.

00:33:31:11 - 00:34:03:04
Caroline Saunders: A box, a shelf, whatever it is, where you know that that's to put stuff that you have to get rid of first, that can be really useful. And then honestly, just, yeah, investing in a good set of like glass snap where has been for me helpful for having a better way to store food in the in the freezer in a way that's actually stackable and reduces the chaos of my freezer because I find a more willing to engage with past food if it's not ruining my life.

00:34:03:04 - 00:34:10:05
Caroline Saunders: When I look at it. And yeah, I guess I'd start with those.

00:34:10:08 - 00:34:39:12
Sara Gutterman: Wonderful. Well, in my furious effort to eliminate PFAS from our kitchen, I have also started shifting over from plastic containers to glass containers. And I love them like, wow. What? Like, who knew that glass containers just be so sexy? And I feel much better using them. And I think that they store food better and I just like them better.

00:34:39:14 - 00:34:53:10
Sara Gutterman: And we actually have a question from Charlie in the audience, so. Or maybe a comment. Victoria, can we ask Charlie to chime in or you want to read his comment?

00:34:53:12 - 00:35:08:18
Victoria Muharsky: Yes. So his comment is pressure cookers and Insta pots can reduce cooking times and energy by a lot. I would like to give him the opportunity if he wants to elaborate. That's what he has in the chat so far.

00:35:08:20 - 00:35:10:27
Charlie: Hi. Can you hear me?

00:35:11:00 - 00:35:11:26
Sara Gutterman: Hey, Charlie.

00:35:12:02 - 00:35:12:21
Caroline Saunders: Hey.

00:35:12:24 - 00:35:44:12
Charlie: Hi, Sarah. Good to see you. Haven't seen you since that Orlando conference you mentioned a few minutes ago, and I. I, too, had good discussions with Paul Hawken that day. Yeah. Pressure cookers really save a lot of energy. It's a surprising amount that you can save with just cooking in a pressure cooker. It reduces the cooking times by a lot, and therefore it saves the energy going into it.

00:35:44:12 - 00:35:59:24
Charlie: And along with that, Caroline, you might have a gas stove in your apartment, but you can use a little portable induction cooker, and that is sure a lot better than burning methane all over your apartment.

00:35:59:29 - 00:36:00:10
Caroline Saunders: Yeah.

00:36:00:13 - 00:36:36:03
Charlie: And and the, you know, greenhouse gases that the leakage from your stove produces even when you're not intending for it to leak. And then finally, I'll mention that, you know, when, when we're trying to get rid of the old Teflon PFAS type cookware, you can buy these newer ceramic lined cookware. They are induction stove friendly, and they are relatively inexpensive.

00:36:36:06 - 00:37:14:26
Charlie: You know, they're they're available online. And so those are three different thoughts there. One last thing I'll mention is that and certainly discuss this with Paul Hawken to, there is a lag between the world and data. Data that you're, that you put up there. And thank you for that. But when you say it's a, you know that the greenhouse gases coming from animal agriculture are in the order of around 12%.

00:37:14:27 - 00:38:00:15
Charlie: And I know you said they're higher than that. It's actually much, much higher than I did participate on a science study, a published peer reviewed science study that shows that they're upwards of 87% from just greenhouse greenhouse gases produced by just animal agriculture. So as the time delay between when the newer publications come out and finally then appear on world and data come, just the audience should know that, that it's even more important to avoid animal products.

00:38:00:17 - 00:38:04:16
Caroline Saunders: Is that 87% of food system emissions?

00:38:04:19 - 00:38:09:10
Charlie: Yeah, it's full farm to table.

00:38:09:12 - 00:38:14:24
Caroline Saunders: That's amazing. Yeah. What what a case for plant rotating.

00:38:14:27 - 00:38:19:03
Charlie: I will put a short link to that study in the questions.

00:38:19:04 - 00:38:21:05
Caroline Saunders: Thank you.

00:38:21:07 - 00:38:27:19
Caroline Saunders: Yeah, that's so staggering. Well, I didn't realize it was that high.

00:38:27:21 - 00:38:45:14
Sara Gutterman: Yeah. Caroline I have I have another follow up question based on on this question. And then we can shift to the next one. And Charlie, thank you so much for your thoughts and comments. Really appreciate that. And I too would love to see the link to your study. So if you could put that in the chat that would be wonderful.

00:38:45:14 - 00:39:14:12
Sara Gutterman: And then I think we can probably send that out to all attendees when we send out the recording of this session, if you're okay with that. But Caroline, food waste, you mentioned composting as one of the obvious. Well, the first way to address food waste is to eliminate food waste, right? Like not to to make what we to eat, what we make and to eat what we take.

00:39:14:14 - 00:39:33:24
Sara Gutterman: But obviously composting is another good way to, to minimize the impact of food waste. Do you have any composting tips, tricks, hacks, any particular compost ers or composting systems that you like or would recommend?

00:39:33:27 - 00:39:55:28
Caroline Saunders: You know, my experience with composting has been pretty urban and pretty chaotic so far. So I live in Brooklyn, and I'm sure a lot of you have heard about the cuts to the composting program in New York and all that. And so there's been some whiplash, but we're still composting. My roommate takes it somewhere, hopefully somewhere good.

00:39:56:01 - 00:40:24:12
Caroline Saunders: And, you know, I think composting can look really different and really specific depending on your home environment. So I'll just speak to mine. Like, I share an apartment with two other roommates, and we share a fridge, and we also share freezer space. And so we have to run a pretty tight ship in order to like, we literally freeze multiple bags of compost a week but have to make that space work.

00:40:24:14 - 00:40:44:27
Caroline Saunders: And so I say all that to say that like organization and space are our friends I really like I can't remember what the brands are, but honestly, I just have like a target composting little bucket that has one of those, little pads that absorbs odors at the top. I think it was $30. And so it's very low barrier to entry.

00:40:44:27 - 00:41:06:29
Caroline Saunders: The size works really well for us. And I, you know, I hear with a lot of envy about people who live in the country or have a little more space and can approach composting a little differently. And I hope to do that one day. To just give one example that I thought was a really cool factor that has launched and lodged in my brain.

00:41:07:00 - 00:41:28:15
Caroline Saunders: I was talking to a baker a couple months ago who is a professional baker. Her name is Rose wild and she lives out in LA. If any of you guys are from there, you should go get her stuff. But she goes through a ton of eggs every week. And so in addition to we talked a lot about how to reduce the waste of leftover yolks and whites.

00:41:28:15 - 00:41:47:24
Caroline Saunders: She also was like, did you know that if you bake all of your extra egg shells on low heat, you can then crush them up and they make a fantastic compost? And I had no idea. So those are the types of little things I hope to one day be able to do is drop the stuff into my own garden.

00:41:47:26 - 00:42:11:16
Sara Gutterman: Thank you. All right, let's move on to the next discussion. Question. Are you aware of any local food initiatives in your area, like community gardens, seed saving workshops or cooking classes? That's the main question. And my extension to that is, again, do you have any tips for those of us listening in today for how we might be able to find those things in our own areas?

00:42:11:18 - 00:42:50:18
Caroline Saunders: Oh yeah. I love this question because I think this question is all about embedding in community to be able to find these resources, right? So I, I personally have moved several times over the past handful of years, moving abroad to go to culinary school, moving to New York. And so for me, at the beginning of that process, there's always this like couple month long period where I'm trying to figure out ways to learn about what my immediate community and neighborhood does offer on stuff like this, because this is the type of thing I like to be involved in.

00:42:50:21 - 00:43:11:20
Caroline Saunders: Facebook groups can be really great to join. By nothing often has a wealth of information in addition to the goods transfer that it enables in similar like neighborhood Facebook groups, Instagram can be really helpful. And then of course, just talking to your neighbors. So I'm in kind of the edge of Crown Heights and Prospect Heights in Brooklyn.

00:43:11:20 - 00:43:34:24
Caroline Saunders: And there are within walking distance of me, two incredible community gardens. And I found those just by walking around and discovering them. And I'm actually hoping to start volunteering with them this spring and found some cooking classes by posing a couple questions in a neighborhood Facebook group. So little ways of breaking the ice and getting into the community are great ways to learn.

00:43:34:27 - 00:43:41:05
Caroline Saunders: But yeah, we'd also love anyone else's other tips about that because I'm still a work in progress on this.

00:43:41:07 - 00:44:02:02
Sara Gutterman: I love that. All right, well, let me let me get to the next question just for the sake of time. But if anyone does have any thoughts on this, again, just chat in or raise your hands. We'd love to hear from you. But in the meantime, let's go to what is the most unique or unexpected ingredient you've discovered through sustainable food practices.

00:44:02:09 - 00:44:05:07
Caroline Saunders: Yeah. Okay, so. Oh, there's so many.

00:44:05:07 - 00:44:33:22
Caroline Saunders: That I could mention and really want to, but I will stick to one. And it is the grain currency that I mentioned. I bet some of you already know about it, but is this amazing? Perennial grain. That was the first, perennial grain developed and sold commercially in the US. So a little context, like most grain farming around the world is annual crops.

00:44:33:22 - 00:44:58:05
Caroline Saunders: So they're planted, they're harvested, they die or are plowed under. And then you begin again. Again in that process releases a lot of carbon to the atmosphere, of course. And so the benefit of perennial crops is that they stay in the ground multiple or even many years, and also have longer root systems that have all sorts of benefits for soil health and also resilience to extreme weather, things like that.

00:44:58:07 - 00:45:31:09
Caroline Saunders: And that is like one of the most interesting things I've ever come across in my whole life, because in addition to, you know, just having all these environmental benefits, it's also one of the only ingredients I've ever known that is a culinary blank slate, because before it was cultivated by the Land Institute in Kansas, which is the nonprofit that developed it in partnership with help from the Rodale Institute, it was largely a forage crop, so animals ate it.

00:45:31:09 - 00:45:56:07
Caroline Saunders: And there's very little recorded history of its culinary human use raised by humans. And so to me, that's this incredible challenge that an opportunity that as it has come onto the market in the past handful of years and is slowly starting to make its way to bakers, there's this process of finding where it shines and figuring out what you do with it.

00:45:56:07 - 00:46:27:02
Caroline Saunders: And of course, grains or grains. We know what to do with other grains, but it has these particular flavors that I was making brief reference to. It's very butterscotch. It's a very sweet compared to a standard wheat flour. I made some tortillas with it once and it was like actively sweet. And, and so I think there's this really exciting, like culinary matching process to do with ingredients like that, where you figure out what is its place in cuisine and there's like nothing more exciting to me.

00:46:27:05 - 00:46:47:02
Sara Gutterman: I love that, I love your experimentation, your willingness to experiment, but also the passion and just joy and excitement that you have for it. And I'm definitely going to try it because I actually have have heard of it. I'm familiar with it, but I haven't tried it yet. So let me ask you one last question and then we will wrap it up.

00:46:47:04 - 00:46:58:00
Sara Gutterman: So what's one small change you've made in your grocery shopping routine to support sustainable food practices? And again, you know, tips, tricks, hacks for for our audience.

00:46:58:05 - 00:47:00:05
Caroline Saunders: Oh, cool.

00:47:00:07 - 00:47:42:12
Caroline Saunders: Yeah. So I actually have done something about this recently. I sat down one day and decided to come up with a staples grocery list and to really actually have it in my head, and I decided to populate it with things like canned black beans and chickpeas and basically low carbon proteins. And so it was both a literal shopping change that I made, but also sort of a cooking planning change that I made where I started to think about, okay, the things that I will have on hand and need to know how to cook and those will be my go to's are going to be these lower carbon proteins and grains and pulses and

00:47:42:12 - 00:48:04:19
Caroline Saunders: things like that. And so yeah, when I go to Trader Joe's, those are the things that I stock up on and when I travel a lot. And so when I get back to New York and open my cupboard and I'm like, what's going to happen? It's the low carbon stuff that's there for me to do something with. And I think that's had a pretty sizable impact on my carbon footprint of the way that I cook.

00:48:04:21 - 00:48:34:07
Sara Gutterman: So quick follow up question. You just mentioned that you travel a lot. I know I do two, although certainly not as much as before the pandemic, partly just because zoom meetings have become normalized. And I just don't think that anyone has quite the appetite, pun intended to travel as much, at least for business in my world. So. But what I find is when I travel, it's hard to.

00:48:34:09 - 00:49:05:28
Sara Gutterman: It's sometimes hard, depending on where I'm going. If I'm traveling to Berkeley or Austin, it's less hard or Boulder. But when I travel to, Cleveland or Chicago or, you know, other places, it's sometimes hard to find sustainable choices that are suitable, say, for meals with clients or, you know, business professional meals. Less hard. If I'm just going to a Trader Joe's or Whole Foods and I'm picking out food to eat right there or bring back to my hotel room.

00:49:05:28 - 00:49:20:15
Sara Gutterman: But do you have any, you know, particular things that you do when you travel to ensure that you're making better decisions, or just anything in particular you look for when you are traveling so that you can make good decisions on the road?

00:49:20:22 - 00:49:21:09
Caroline Saunders: Oh, that's such.

00:49:21:09 - 00:49:47:24
Caroline Saunders: A good question. Well, I honestly, most of my travel this year has been personal just to see family. And so I haven't had luckily, the challenge of having to like, pick sustainable restaurants where I'm going to have like a meals with folks I might be working with, but nevertheless, it is forever easier on the planet for me, and also easier on my wallet for me to bring snacks on the plane.

00:49:47:25 - 00:49:56:10
Caroline Saunders: I'm a big plane. Snacks will save the planet. Actually, that just sounds like the worst oxymoron ever because flights and emissions. But you know what I mean.

00:49:56:12 - 00:50:01:04
Caroline Saunders: Planning it, right? Yes.

00:50:01:07 - 00:50:21:22
Sara Gutterman: I understand and actually. So every time I fly, I now purchase carbon offsets. And actually I'm not sure if you or the audience knows this, but Green Builder Media recently launched a carbon offsets platform where you can actually go on to our website and purchase high quality carbon offsets, because there's a big difference between high quality and low carb, low quality carbon offsets.

00:50:21:24 - 00:50:36:01
Sara Gutterman: But I hear you that I try to reduce my travel in general, but when I can't and I do have to get onto a plane, I always make sure I buy carbon offsets to at least feel like I'm doing my impact and I to bring snacks.

00:50:36:02 - 00:50:36:28
Caroline Saunders: I'm a I.

00:50:37:01 - 00:50:48:17
Sara Gutterman: That person as well where, you know, I'll unwrap my little, you know, paper or some whatever eco friendly packaging, have my little snacks. And of course, the people sitting.

00:50:48:17 - 00:50:49:17
Caroline Saunders: Next to me like.

00:50:49:20 - 00:50:51:08
Sara Gutterman: That looks good.

00:50:51:11 - 00:50:51:23
Caroline Saunders: Yeah.

00:50:51:24 - 00:50:52:18
Caroline Saunders: If I have.

00:50:52:21 - 00:50:58:21
Caroline Saunders: I can walk past the Shake Shack at LGA and not be pulled toward it.

00:50:58:23 - 00:51:26:01
Sara Gutterman: That's great. And then I just do want to ask you one more quick question. Just a personal question. What do you think about things like, you know, the Impossible Meats and and some of the, we'll say lab produced meat alternatives. Do you, do you from a I don't know if you know anything about them from a carbon footprint standpoint or even just from a taste preference standpoint.

00:51:26:01 - 00:51:29:00
Sara Gutterman: I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on those.

00:51:29:03 - 00:51:43:20
Caroline Saunders: I don't feel like I'm up on the latest climate science on how these compare. I feel like I've seen conflicting headlines, so I don't want to comment. It would be curious if anybody else knows better than I do, but, but I, I had.

00:51:43:20 - 00:51:43:28
Caroline Saunders: A.

00:51:43:28 - 00:52:17:18
Caroline Saunders: Really incredible first experience with an Impossible Burger when I wasn't my first job out of college at Grist Magazine. I was like, helping out with some events that we were doing in New York, live in Seattle, and we tried Impossible Burgers for some event, and I was like, I'll taste difference. This is incredible. Now, I don't know if it was just like a first taste thing or what, because since then I've been able to tell a little bit, but I find some of them fairly compelling.

00:52:17:21 - 00:52:46:15
Caroline Saunders: And honestly, I think that, like, you know, I'm generally less interested in like, replacement stuff and more interested in, like, just, you know, finding plant based dishes that are their own magic. I think that all these approaches are probably going to be really important culturally to helping people adopt more sustainable diets. I think people value different things and are compelled by different sustainable paths forward.

00:52:46:15 - 00:53:04:02
Caroline Saunders: And so, you know, I'm so glad that they exist, because I think that's probably the path for a lot of people who are willing to reduce their carbon footprints but want to do it a certain way that feels like it's in line with their traditions of how they've always eaten.

00:53:04:05 - 00:53:20:17
Sara Gutterman: Yes. Wonderful. Thank you. So I have a few things I would just want to say at the very end. But before I do, Caroline, any last comments or thoughts or ideas or anything you just you want to share with our audience before we wrap it up.

00:53:20:20 - 00:53:29:16
Caroline Saunders: Honestly, I'm just glad to be in good company of people who care deeply about this stuff too. And yeah, so thanks so much for including me and having me here.

00:53:29:18 - 00:53:49:17
Sara Gutterman: Well, Caroline, this is the first time that we've had you on a discussion, but I can guarantee you it will not be the last. We look forward to working more closely with you. I've learned a lot, and I have dedicated my life and career to this work. So thank you for really a riveting and enlightening hour. So really appreciated.

00:53:49:17 - 00:54:11:00
Sara Gutterman: And again, look forward to working closely with you in the future. I know we're talking about a climate friendly cookbook and some other initiatives, so I look forward to diving into those. And for our audience, please keep an eye open for those also to our audience, please, if you have not already, we have a free and virtual sustainability symposium.

00:54:11:00 - 00:54:44:04
Sara Gutterman: It's the same event I mentioned earlier that Paul Hawkins spoke at a couple of times. He's not presenting this year, but we do have some other amazing presenters from Shia Bastida, who is the youth climate activist that started Fridays for future, to the sustainability expert Ashley Piper, to the futurist, author and economist Jeremy Rifkin, I'll be presenting a session this year about ESG, climate disclosure and other general sustainability trends.

00:54:44:04 - 00:55:04:01
Sara Gutterman: So please join us. It's on April 17th and 18th from 12 to 3 eastern each day. Again, go to our website, Green Builder Media. You can catch the tab on our nav bar again free and virtual, so there's no reason not to sign up. Even if you can't make it in person. We'll send you the recorded sessions and you can listen to them afterwards.

00:55:04:04 - 00:55:31:13
Sara Gutterman: It's going to be incredible, incredible content. The theme this year is Existential Solutions, so it's going to be a really upbeat and lively discussion about solutions for meeting our climate challenges. And then the other event to keep your eye open for is our next Next Generation Influencer group meeting. It'll be in July. We'll be focusing on eco anxiety next time, so look for an email about that.

00:55:31:14 - 00:55:58:09
Sara Gutterman: The date is yet to be determined with our wonderful presenter, but like Caroline, we have another great expert who's just going to provide wonderful content for us. So that's a wrap. Thank you again all for attending. Thanks, Victoria and Mary for your production efforts extraordinaire. And again, Caroline, thank you so much. I look forward to your next Pale Blue Pale Blue Tart newsletter and we really appreciate your insights today.

00:55:58:10 - 00:56:02:28
Caroline Saunders: Thank you. Yeah, good to be with you all and have a great day. Thank you. Thanks.